PAUL: Hello, and welcome
to Regrets I've Had a Few.

I'm Paul Hunter, Artistic Director of Told
by an Idiot, and this is a podcast where I

talk to friends and colleagues delving
into what made them

the person they are today.

Hello and welcome.

My guest this month is an actor equally
at home on stage and screen,

from new writing to devising, from the
classics to critically acclaimed TV work.

She also happens to be from my hometown.

Welcome, fellow Brummie, Amaka Okafor.

AMAKA: Yay.

Brummie.
PAUL: Exactly.

For our listeners' benefit,
some people might not even know where,

which parts of Birmingham we're from,
but where were you from

and where were you born?

AMAKA: I was born in Dudley Road Hospital.

You know what?

I was always told by my parents,
we're from Edgbaston, right?

I think that's because
that's meant to be fancy.

But now, because I go back
all the time, it's Bearwood.

I'm from Bearwood.

PAUL: Can I say my parents
were equally the same.

I think we were borderline Quinton, but
very much Harborne in my parents' minds.

AMAKA: Although- I mean,
they are next to each other.

PAUL: Yeah, they are.

Although I have to say, since I was
living there in the 1970s,

Harborne is very swanky.
It's got a Waitrose and everything.

AMAKA: It's so fancy.
PAUL: Yeah.

And Bearwood, also where I went to school,
I think we touched on this before,

but my school, Lordswood Boys School,
was in Bearwood.

AMAKA: Oh, you went to Lordswood?
PAUL: I did, yeah.

We should move away from Birmingham.

People might be tuning off.

It's just a Brummie episode.

Anyway, we'll come back to that.

But I'm going to start, if I may,
the way I start with all my guests,

which in a way does obviously
take us back to Birmingham.

But I wondered if you could remember,
if you do remember, your first experience

of seeing live performance and what that
was, whether it was a family or school.

AMAKA: Yeah.
Well, I mean, my dad's a musician.

He's a singer-songwriter.

I grew up
like, he has stories of me sleeping in his

guitar case in the wings while
he's on stage when I was a baby.

I definitely grew up watching
him perform, and he is quite…

He goes somewhere else
when he's performing.

There are chunks of the set where he will
sometimes just put his guitar down

and pick up a djembe,
just like, rift for ages.

There was something scary and magical
and dangerous about that,

if you know what I mean.
PAUL: Yeah, wow.

AMAKA: It wasn't like, Oh, I knew what
the set was going to be every time.

Do you know what I mean?

PAUL: Also, when you describe that,
that sounds quite a

very powerful thing from being
very little to experiencing that.

I immediately thought of another guest
of ours, Audrey Brisson,

who grew up in the circus because her
father was part of Cirque du Soleil.

Similarly, she talks like you of being
around it from a tiny age and experiencing

something that your parent does,
which is transformative.

That must have been amazing.

Did you go to lots of...

Were you there for lots of those
gigs when you were little and stuff?

AMAKA: Yeah, I think a lot of the time,
it was out of necessity because

there wasn't anyone else.

There was no one else to look after
me while he was doing it.

But it was also…

My parents aren't together anymore,
but there was definitely a stage

when my mum was his manager as well.

I remember being in lots of university
halls and my dad gigging in universities.

I must have been so young.

I was just always so proud,
just so proud of him.

PAUL: Also, it's interesting,
we might touch on this a bit later,

and I'm now going to go away and listen
and look at your father's work.

But I suppose also something that's
in a sense rooted in obviously live

performance and a certain degree
of spontaneity, that it's

not the same, it changes.

That's something that is very close
to my heart in terms of what we do as

actors and stuff and how we tap into that.

I might come back to that.

In a way, you have show
business in your blood then.

AMAKA: Yeah.
I never linked it as much as as an adult.

I'm like, Oh, yeah, of course.
It's from that.

But I remember the moment when I knew I
wanted to be an actor,

and I was quite young.

I don't know if you've seen
the film Beverly Hills Cop.

I watched that when it came out, and I
must have been seven, maybe even younger.

I remember being like...

Because Eddie Murphy in that film
is Brilliant.

PAUL: He is.
AMAKA: He is brilliant in that film.

He's just also extremely
free and a bit wild.

You can just tell no one quite
knows what he's going to do.

At first I thought I wanted to be a police
officer because that's what he is.

He's a detective.
I thought that's what I wanted to do.

Then I was like, Oh, no,
I want to do what he is doing.

There's this one scene that always sticks
in the back of my head where

he's doing some deal.

He's undercover and he's in some
alley in the back of a truck.

He's doing some deal to do
with cigarettes, I think.

And suddenly the cops turn up and he's
holding on to the edge of this lorry.

And at some point, you know this lorry is
about to tear down the alley and go

around, and he just
hangs onto these chains.

And he is like flying through
the air on this lorry.

And you're just like, he's doing that.

The stunt guy is not doing that.

And also you can tell he doesn't really
know when the lorry is about to take off.

The lorry, it just was so exciting.

PAUL: That's fantastic that
something triggered that desire,

as you say, to fear before, which is,
as you rightly identify,

an extraordinary really unpredictable,
charismatic thing happening within a form,

in a way, of film that is often
quite restricted, in a sense.

But you're right, there's a sense
that it's very unpredictable in a way.

What about as you were growing up,
what about your own early tentative

performance steps at school?

Were there school plays
or anything like that?

AMAKA: I went to lots of different
schools, actually.

We travelled around a lot, but I
think there was a time when I was,

I mean, I'm reassessing this now,
but I was apparently difficult.

I was difficult.

That's what they tell me.

My godfather said to me, said to my mum,
he was like, send her to Youth Theatre.

At the MAC, Midlands Art Centre,
there was a Youth Theatre called Stage 2,

and I joined Stage 2 and had no friends,
didn't really make any friends,

but loved being in it.

The woman Liz Light, who ran it, was
so scary and had such high standards for

us to do with attendance,
time keeping, learning your lines.

Even as ensemble members,
I was only ever an ensemble member,

apart from Bugsy Malone,
I had a couple of lines.

But she really expected
the best from everybody.

I just wanted to be I just turned
up again and again and again.

I was embarrassed and shy because it was
very cliquey and I wasn't in any

of the cliques,
but there was just something about it

because it was a proper theatre as well.
I don't know if you've been in that.

PAUL: Yeah, I remember it very well.

AMAKA: Proper theatre!

PAUL: I think it's interesting.
Well, two things.

My first question is, how old were
you when you first went to MAC?

AMAKA: I want to say eight or nine.
PAUL: Amazing.

Because it's interesting,
those youth theatres, obviously,

I'm older than you, but in Birmingham,
I remember MAC very well,

but then I went to a youth theatre called
the Triangle Youth Theatre in Aston.

AMAKA: I heard of that, actually.

PAUL: It used to be an art centre there
called the Triangle Art Centre.

I don't know why I didn't go
to Midland's Art Centre and why I went

there, but those youth theatres
and the people that ran them,

and as you say, that were
amazing in how they got you into it and

how they treated you on the whole as well.

They took it seriously and they took you
seriously, which wasn't always the case

when you were growing up, was it?

AMAKA: No.

I also did plays at school.

I remember in primary school,
we did the Pirates of Penzance,

which just feels like in our tiny little
It was almost like a village primary

school near Harborne,
actually, Nursery Road.

I can't believe we put on this.
We did all the songs.

PAUL: You must have had a passionate Gilbert
and Sullivan teacher in your

primary school or something.

AMAKA: The good thing about the Pirates
of Penzance is that there's room

for everybody to get something to do.
PAUL: Okay.

AMAKA: I feel like we all had
a good crack at something.

We all had our moment in the sun.

Then I went to lots of different schools
and always wanted to be in the plays

and never had a lead part in anything.

Then one school I went to where I had one
teacher, Mr. Turner,

who just saw that I wanted to do this.

He really fought for me, basically.

I remember in my A-Levels,
I didn't know this until I left,

but in my A-Levels,
all the way through school,

I had small part, small part, small part,
but part of the ensemble, which I loved.

Then we did the Caucasian
chalk circle in my upper sixth.

I got to play Grusha.

My teachers had this opinion
that I wasn't very academic.

So behind my back,
they had a meeting with Mr. Turner

and said, You need to pull her out
of the play because she's

going to fail her A Levels.

He said to them, If you make me pull
her out of the play, I will quit my job.

So they didn't.

He didn't tell me this
until I'd done my A Levels.

I just was like, wow,
he's the only teacher who took me

seriously when I said I
wanted to be an actor.

Everybody else tried to persuade me to go
into journalism or to do sports

because I also loved sports.

But he was, and he still comes to my play.

He's like, I love Mr. Turner.

PAUL: Oh, that's such a brilliant
story of, not on a simple level,

not just someone who's got your back,
but someone who believes

in you in a very deeper way.

I think that's really…

It's a valuable thing, isn't it?

We need that somewhere.

AMAKA: Yeah, somebody who really believes in you.

PAUL: Wow.
He sounds amazing.

AMAKA: Yeah, he's great.

PAUL: Have you done any Brecht professionally?

AMAKA: No, I'm dying to.

PAUL: Well, I love Brecht,
and I'd never done any.

I got the chance a few years ago
at the Young Vic to be in Life

of Galileo, and I just adored it.

I think he's such an astonishing
writer for the theatre, isn't it?

That sounds…

I wish I'd seen your
Pirates of Penzance now.

You're obviously, you're
into the school plays, you're doing that.

Did you do drama at A Level?

AMAKA: No.

Another story, I'll try
and keep them short.

I feel like I'm going on-
PAUL: No, this is brilliant.

AMAKA: Well, I I wanted to do A-Level,
but my school didn't offer it.

I said to Mr. Turner, I was like, Look,
I want to do drama.

He went, Okay, go and tell the headmaster.
I went to Headmaster.

I should say this was this.

I ended up at boarding school.

I went to lots of different schools,
like lots of different state schools,

because we moved around
and we didn't have any money.

But I took some exam, which meant
the government paid for my fee.

I was in this stuffy countryside It was
just full of white people

and it was very patriarchal.
It was quite...

That's why Mr. Turner was such a godsend,
actually, because he really saw me.

He saw my spirit, if you know what I mean.

Anyway,
I went to the headmaster and I said, Look,

I really want to do theatre studies
for A-Level, but you guys don't allow it.

He was like, Okay, if you can get enough
people from your year to say they

want to do it, then I'll put it on.

He gave me a number of people
that I had to get on this list.

I went around my entire year
and was like, Who's up for this?

Who is willing to put their name on this
thing to say they want

to do theatre studies?

I got more than double
the number that he wanted.

I went back to him and I said, Look,
I've managed to get all these

people who want to do it.

He basically said, I didn't think
you were going to manage that.

I was never going to let
you do this, basically.

PAUL: You're kidding me.

AMAKA: It was such a slap in the face,
but also it was such a - that moment

of going, Oh, grownups lie.

They tell you that you can do a thing,
and actually, they don't

always stand by their word.

I was so disillusioned.

I couldn't believe that he did that.

PAUL: That's terrible.

Terrible thing to do.

AMAKA: So no, I didn't do theatre studies.

PAUL: You've thrown two contrasting examples of
teaching here, the brilliant Mr. Turner.

And then this person I
don't want to be named.

AMAKA: Mr Carson, I've named him.
PAUL: Well, that's why you've named it now.

Named and shamed him.

So at what point, you talk about vividly,
brilliantly, entertainingly,

the point where you think, I want to be
an actor, where you see Eddie Murphy.

At what point do you think,
I'm going to try and be an actor?

AMAKA: From then.
PAUL: From then.

As long ago as then, it was rock solid?

Wow, that's impressive.

AMAKA: Well, I think it was easier because I had
a performer father.

When my parents separated,
I lived with him.

We never had any money.

I wasn't under any-

PAUL: You saw the lifestyle of a musician.

AMAKA: I was like, This is going to be tough.

PAUL: But it's an interesting thing where,
I don't know, I'm always fascinated,

I've got friends whose parents
are actors and the difference.

My mum was a dinner lady
and my dad was an electrician.

There was no context for it.

In fact, I had that conversation you kind
alluded to where I kept it

a secret from my mates from school.

Sport was my big thing,
and I suddenly wasn't going to say

I was going to act or whatever.

When I did, my mum and my sister
said to me, Why don't you go

to university and do English?

Then you'll have
something to fall back on.

I remember going, If I have something
to fall back on, I will fall back on it.

AMAKA: That phrase, something to fall back on.

People said that to me all the time.

Even through university,
even once I'd started doing it, I was just

like, would you stop doing that, please?

I It was always my aim to be an actor,
and I was quite

private about that because I didn't want
to hear this, what you're going to fall

back on thing that I kept
hearing from everybody.

I remember my first day at university,
I did a I agree in devising, really,

in Liverpool, Liverpool John Moore's Uni.

I remember going around the circle
at the beginning, our head of Department,

Lou, saying, What do you want to be?

Everyone would go, Well, you know,
Ideally, I'd like to be an actor,

but that's not realistic,
so I'll do da da da da da da.

Everybody said that, and it got to me
and I was like, I'm going to be an actor.

We're 18.

Let's try and do the thing we want to do.
PAUL: Exactly.

Also, it's interesting that your
use of language there as well.

It's not like going, Oh, I want to be.
I'm going to be.

There's no want about it.
I'm going to do this.

I just wonder what that's about.

AMAKA: Even now, I'm just having the thought,
I've I've never been scared of what would

happen if I ran out of money more because
I grew up very, very poor because I had a

performing parent, and we always managed.

I've been a cleaner in between jobs.

I've looked after kids.

I've done those jobs
in between to keep you alive.

But also I always knew that if the shit
really hit the fan, I'd just move home.

I'd just move back in with my family,
and I actually like them.

So that wasn't such a bad thing.

PAUL: No, that's really interesting what you say
there and also about the very valid

point you make about being 18.

It should be full of that thing,
not already going, Well, I don't guess.

Very realistic.

Anyway, well, John Moores,
it comes to where we met, of course.

We chatted about this recently that our
company, obviously, the Idiots,

amongst many companies,
we were given great opportunities

in Liverpool at the Unity Theatre
under the brilliant Graeme Phillips.

Whenever we came every year in one of our
shows, we'd always go to John Moores

because it was next door,
and we do workshops with the students,

which we loved.

I think because
the ethos it felt at John Moores was also

struck a cord with what we were doing,
in a sense, making work rather than

doing a play off a shelf.

We met a lot of brilliant
students who were really...

I think I mentioned Dhamesh Patel,
an actor that's worked with us on several

occasions, who I first encountered
in that environment.

Did it feel like
quite an interesting time to be studying

that type of theatre in that city in
terms of what was happening in theatre,

or did you not really think about it?

AMAKA: Well, it was like nothing
I've never experienced before.

I loved it so much.

I loved it so much.
I felt...

I was completely petrified
because devising is frightening.

PAUL: Yeah, it is.

AMAKA: But I really loved it.

I loved how at the beginning of each
session, I would feel a bit sick

because you just don't know.

Then by the end of it,
you've made something.

You've always made something.

Our theatre was Black box,
and they gave us complete freedom

to do what we wanted in that space.

We built our sets,
we painted it whenever we wanted it.

We did the lights, we did the sound,
we found the costumes.

We went into town, there was
this place called Quiggins.

It was this old building in town where you
could buy furniture really

cheap and buy clothes.

We'd just go down Quiggins,
get our set, come back up, make it.

It was really something.

I was quite embarrassed for my first chunk
of career of just not being able to say I

went to RADA or any of these
drama-schooly places.

But actually learning how to do lights,
learning how to do sound, doing

direction, It gives you a way more
holistic view of how to make work

and respect for everybody's
profession within this thing,

that division between actor and technician
just shouldn't really be there.

PAUL: No.

I think what you describe really
passionately and really brilliantly

is an approach to theatre,
which is obviously the theatre that I love

being part of, which is in its essence,
it should be the most collaborative art

form,
because it is about a group of people

coming together to tell a story in front
of another group of people in a live

situation, and everybody's
collaborating on that.

Sometimes we know that film and TV
isn't always very collaborative.

By its very nature,
it's slightly more hierarchical.

But theatre shouldn't be like that.

Theatre in its very essence
should be an act of collaboration.

People talk about that sometimes, but they
don't really commit to that as well.

I think your course clearly did.

I totally relate to what you're saying as
well, in fact,

that sense of fear,
because I remember when I was

at Middlesex,
where I met Hayley and John Wright was

teaching us, whenever I used to go to his
classes, I had the perfect

combination of fear and excitement.

I was terrified to go,
but I really wanted to go.

I think that's a really good thing as
a performer to have those

to get all the time.

AMAKA: I mean, that's what I loved
about your workshops, actually.

I think I did two.

I did one when you guys came
with Is It Shoot Me Through the Heart?

PAUL: Yes.

AMAKA: That's the show I saw.

I saw the other one where you had this big
captain's hat on.

PAUL: Yes, I Can't Wake Up.

AMAKA: Yeah, those two shows.

They were like - doing the workshops.

I always was like, Oh, my God,
because we'd just seen your shows

and they were just so excellent.

You're like, God, can I even be in the
same room making work with these people?

But it was always just so fun.

Then by the end of it,
you made a thing that I was like,

I wish my tutors were in here to see this
thing that I've just made with these guys.

It's good feeling scared.

PAUL: But also, I suppose the great thing
in a simple way was geographically

how close you were to that theatre.
It was literally next door.

I thought, What a great thing.

Then the programming that Graeme was doing
meant that you could see

all this devised work.

It was fundamentally that was the work
that happened in the building.

Then, of course, as you then obviously go
on to a very illustrious career before,

you then obviously encounter directors
I'm going to mention Sally Cookson now.

I know Sally very well,
but I've never worked with her.

But I remember seeing you in Peter Pan
and seeing various productions.

What I love about Sally as well,
I love many things about Sally as well,

but talking to lots of friends of mine
who have worked directly with her,

which I have, is the whole notion
of devising in collaboration.

She still has that on her
publicity 'devised by the company'.

I really respect that.

I think that's a real acknowledgement
of how the work is made.

That's not I've always acknowledged, I
have to say, and I respect Sally for that.

AMAKA: She's wonderful.

I remember that one of the things I love
about her is she'll come

in at the beginning of the day and she'll
sit us all down together and she'll be

like, Right,
I've got the material

for this part of the show.

I have the material
for this part of the show.

I don't know how to get from here to here.

I don't know how to join them.

What should we do?

It makes everyone go, Right,
okay, let's roll up our sleeves.

She really invites you in.

PAUL: It's very enabling.

AMAKA: It really is.

It gives you power, and you claim it.

We owned that show.

Honestly, I love to- You could see it.

Yeah, those people, I'm still very good
friends with everybody in that show.

We had such a fun time.

Even there was one section where we were
being space because it was the part where

the kids are flying to Neverland
and they fly through space.

It was me and Felix Hayes throwing a ball
to each other, playing

a game of catch, essentially.

The ball was the planet,
and it was one of those balls

that lights up when it hits your hand.

Every day, it was the funnest thing.

He was challenging me with his throws.

I was chucking myself.

It was so fun.

Actually, I was like, it's-

PAUL: Also,
I think what's really

interesting about what you say then about
what Sally said to you about

how do we get from here to here?
I don't know.

I think sometimes,
probably with my director's hat on there,

but Sometimes I feel the pressure to know
everything and to be very much

the position of I'm in control of this.

Whereas I think a really strong
position to take is I don't know.

AMAKA: In life, generally.

PAUL: To really enable and provoke the group to
get on board and create what that is.

I agree.

The reason why, and I love
doing plays, of course, I do.

Talked about Brecht
and all of those things.

But the reason why I always come back
with us, I suppose, the Idiot, excuse me,

is the sense of making it yourself.

No one's done it before.

You are doing it for the...
It's yours.

I think you inhabit it as a as a performer
slightly differently,

just slightly differently to when
you are given a role and you learn.

Not saying you don't inhabit that,
of course you do.

But it's not the same as making it up.
It's a different thing.

AMAKA: That's so true.

Because when you're doing that,
when you're performing something that you

originated,
you're tapping into the spirit.

There's a purity about it
because you were the originator.

Each time you come to do it again, you're
tapping into the integrity of the moment

more because you're going,
What was I trying to do?

I was trying to do this,
and it will look different.

It can look different,
but the meaning is the truth.

I know that sounds so like-

PAUL: No. No.

No.
No.

No, it doesn't.

It's interesting when directors then give
you the opportunity to tap

into that in their process as well.

Obviously, you've done some fantastic…

You've also obviously done some
great screen work.

We talked about your training.

Do you ever feel there's been
opportunities in your film work to apply

some of that,
or does it feel very separate to you

in terms of the discipline of performer?

AMAKA: Well, that's really interesting.

That is the thing that I'm trying
to work on at the moment, actually.

To me, screenwork feels like it's very new
to me still because I've done so much

theatre and screens only happen
the last few few years, really.

I'm really trying.

I'm on a job at the moment,
and the challenge I've given myself is

to try and be more free
and to try and enjoy myself more.

Then I came to see you guys in Rhinoceros
and was like, Oh, my God,

Told by an Idiot, Hayley.

Oh, my God, Paul, the way you
kicked off the show, I loved it.

No one could do that like you.

Then afterwards, I went to just see if you
guys were running workshops,

and I was like, Okay,
this is my next focus

is to remember my history, basically,
which is the work that you guys make,

and to do those workshops,
and to find a way of fusing that spirit

with also film, because the thing that's
great about, that's the one that I love is

you have to make a decision quite quickly,
and you have to nail it quite quickly,

which is similar to improvising.

PAUL: Yes.

AMAKA: Then I'm like,
Let me not get stuck in having

to hit the right mark
and needing to know where the light is.

Let me try and keep that improvising,
to keep that live thing

going that you're doing.

PAUL: In a medium that can be
obviously quite technical.

But I have friends as well who are often
friends who've been to Le Coq or whatever.

They've often talked about the notion,
and they're doing a lot of film work or

whatever, but they often look back
to that training on what they experience.

In the same way you're saying, they're
looking to take some of that through to...

Of course, it's applicable.
Of course, it is.

It's just finding that way.
Finding the way to do it.

How you find that freedom
within that restriction.

AMAKA: Because I've been seeing
Kathryn Hunter pop up on screen more.

Obviously, she's just
forever been working.

But I think I didn't properly...

The first time I really saw her on stage
as an adult was when she was doing

Cleopatra, Anthony
and Cleopatra in the RSC.

Then after that, I saw her more on screen,
and I was like,

Well, she's managing to do it.

She's doing that weird thing she does,
and she's doing it on screen,

and it works.
It really works.

PAUL: Yes.
No, that's very true.

Kathryn's a good example because
obviously, she's an astonishing

performer on stage, I mean, undeniably.
But I think you're right.

As she suddenly become more prominent in
film and stuff, I think you see it,

and you're right, it does work.

It absolutely It still has that visceral
quality that she has

in the theatre, for sure.

You mentioned Cleopatra and stuff.

This isn't a life-chapter question,
but is there parts that you think,

I'd love to do that,
or I'd love to have a go at that,

or do you not think about parts very much?

It just depends on the script.

Well, first of all, I'm asking the bigger
sense of what makes you choose something

if you're going to do something.

AMAKA: Well, I mean, gosh, I would love
to get some meaty, juicy stage stuff.

I'd love to do Cleopatra.

I've often thought about that.

My journey has been very incremental.

It's been slightly bigger part, slightly
bigger part, slightly bigger part.

I've been in two massive productions
of Hamlet, one with Benedict Cumberbatch.

PAUL: I saw you with Andrew (Scott).
AMAKA: Yeah.

Both of those times not playing the part
I really would like to be playing.

I think now I'm trying to
hold off for just something meaty.

I don't even have anything
particular in mind, but

it is interesting whenever I auditioned as
a young person, Well,

younger than I am now.

My pieces, you know when you're
at that stage where you're bringing your

own pieces in and then it's that stage.

My speeches were always men's speeches
because I felt they had more freedom.

There was just something in the writing
where it wasn't about being a man

in the way that women
often seem to be about being a woman.

Sometimes I'm like, Oh,
I'd just love to be Macbeth.

PAUL: Yeah, great.

Why, absolutely.

AMAKA: Yeah, I don't know.

Really, what I really want to do is
be like a cowgirl.

Because I grew up watching science
fiction movies, but also Westerns.

My dad loves Westerns.

I'd love to get to be a cowgirl and learn
how to ride and corral

the cattle and all that stuff.

PAUL: Not only can I see that,
I do want to see that.

I wish you all the best with that.
AMAKA: I'll let you know.

PAUL: It's been so lovely chatting.
AMAKA: You too.

PAUL: It really has.

Thank you so much for saying
hello again the other day.

It's been lovely.

Some of the stuff you said today
has really struck a chord with me.

So thank you.

It's made me think about,
reflect on things.

Now, I always finish each
episode with the same thing.

I ask seven rapid fire questions,
to which you just say the first answer

that comes into your head,
or indeed, you don't have to answer.

I think I might know the answer to this.

I don't know my first one.

Take That or Boyzone.
AMAKA: Take That.

PAUL: Has to be, doesn't it?

This is a question about something
with or without something else.

I'm going to say this.

Chips with curry sauce or not curry sauce?
AMAKA: Not.

PAUL: Not.

Stage or screen?

AMAKA: I can't!

PAUL: You don't have to answer.
Bond villain or superhero?

AMAKA: Superhero.

PAUL: Good.
Taj Mahal or the Pyramid?

AMAKA: Taj Mahal.
Wow.

Yeah, okay.

PAUL: Lady Macbeth or Cleopatra?
AMAKA: Ooh Cleopatra.

PAUL: Think very carefully before
you answer this question.

Aston Villa or Birmingham City?
AMAKA: Aston Villa.

PAUL: Yes.

I knew you were.
I knew you were.

Thank you so much.

Really lovely catching up,
and I hope we see each other very soon.

AMAKA: Thank you.
So lovely.

All the best.
AMAKA: Take care.

PAUL: All the best.
Take care.

Have a good day.
Bye-bye.

AMAKA: You too.
Bye.

PAUL: Dear listeners, if you've enjoyed this
Idiot podcast, please spread the word.