PAUL: Hello, and welcome
to Regrets I've Had a Few.

I'm Paul Hunter, Artistic Director of
Told by an Idiot, and this is a podcast

where I talk to friends and colleagues
delving into what made them

the person they are today.

Hello and welcome.

I recently performed with this month's
guest and witnessed their warmth,

charisma, and naturalness up close.

Currently, rehearsing
Alexander Zeldin's new version

of Antigone at the National Theatre,
and with film projects in the pipeline,

surely a bright future lies ahead.

Please welcome Lee Braithwaite.

LEE: What a nice introduction.

Thank you, Paul.

PAUL: Well, you're very welcome, Lee.

We're going to talk about many things,
obviously, over the next half of now.

I obviously want to ask about
the current show that you're rehearsing,

but it's lovely to see you.

We'll obviously touch on
the show we did together,

Charlie Josephine's brilliant Cowbois.

We'll talk a bit about that.

But if it's okay, Lee, I always
start the same way with my guests.

I take them back to the first time
they saw a live performance of something.

It's sometimes tricky to remember exactly
what that might be or who that was with,

whether it was your family or school.

But do you have any idea
what one of the very earliest things

you saw was of who you were with?

LEE: One of the very earliest...

I mean, I was quite lucky that where
I grew up in Harrogate, we were quite

near, not too far driving distance away
from a really good receiving theatre,

The Alhambra, in Bradford.

PAUL: Yes, yeah.
Brilliant.

LEE: I remember.
Yes, it's beautiful, beautiful theatre.

We're going to see a lot
of productions there, I think I've got

a really distinct memory
of it being The Sound of Music, I think.

PAUL: Brilliant.

LEE: A stage show of it because I just really
clearly remember being really small

and the bit where they go to the concert
to perform, and it's been the build-up.

And then there is the bit in the show
where these two big red flags with just

the Swastika, just like, flops down.

I remember being so in awe
and kind of afraid and scared.

I was like, oh, wow.

It was really like, oh, theatre makes you…

I love the way it made
me feel watching it.

Then, yeah, I wasn't yet
to realise that I would enjoy even more

being on the other side of the stage.

PAUL: How old were you?

LEE: I think I must have been.

I, maybe like six or seven.
PAUL: Who did you go with?

LEE: It would have been with my family.

It would have been with my mum
and then maybe my granny as well.

My cousins might have been there.

It might have been a special occasion.

They might have come up and
we might have gone as a family.

PAUL: Seeing something quite
iconic to start off with.

LEE: Yeah, it's very iconic.

I can't recall at that time if I'd seen
the film, if I was aware of the, the...

PAUL: Yes, maybe not.

What about your own early performance.

Were you in school plays or
things like that?

LEE: My first performance, I remember being
Captain Hook in a Stage Coach,

production of Peter Pan, when I was,
I must have been about four or five.

I was obsessed with pirates
as a kid as well.

It was a really big deal.

I had my own pirate costume.

I really distinctly remember practising
the lines in the mirror at home.

It's like a real memory that's etched
in my head and being like,

oh yeah, if I say it like this.

That was definitely a real...

That was the first one.

Then I think a really pivotal
first role that I was like 'oh, I really

want to be an actor' was at school.

We did an alternate of a play
and a musical every year,

and it was the musical Oliver,
and I was the Artful Dodger.

PAUL: Aaah

LEE: I just fell in love with
the playfulness of the character.

It was really, really fun.

I think it was the first time that I felt
really distraught after it had finished,

and I was like 'oh, my God, no.

I need this feeling more.

This isn't okay.'

PAUL: It's interesting, the two parts
that you talk about, Captain Hook,

when you only Four, and then
obviously later Artful Dodger.

In terms of what those
parts are like, I suppose.

But also, did your mum
take you along to Stage Coach?

Was that your mum saying 'Why
don't you go along here?'.

How did that start?

LEE: Yeah, I think, my mum had always

encouraged me to do as much

as possible and just like, yeah,
I did lots of things as a kid.

I played sports, too.

But I don't know if it was ever...

I don't know who was first, if mum
put me in it first or if I was like,

I want to do Stage Coach.

But I think it was probably a thing
that other kids did at school as well.

Mum was probably like,
that'd be good for you.

She used to take me and then
she encouraged me as well when

it came to going to secondary school.

I got a drama scholarship to my school,
which was really, I guess,

pivotal when I think about it
in building me up as a person.

Because I had these amazing one-to-one
drama lessons with my favourite teacher

of all time, Mrs. Lloyd.

I just got to play for an hour
for free once a week and just

explore all parts of myself.

PAUL: Lee, that's amazing, because
it's interesting, I've interviewed or

chatted to 40, 50 guests on this podcast.

One thing that really connects people
is, there's often a teacher.

There's often...
What was the name?

Mrs. Lloyd, you said?
LEE: Lloyd.

Yeah.

PAUL: There's often a teacher
where someone goes...

I had a teacher in my childhood
who encouraged me, an English teacher.

Sometimes you don't realise what effect
that has when someone gives you

that opportunity or says 'Oh, no, you've
got something in you around this idea'.

You mentioned when you did the Dodger
that you thought 'Oh, this is

the beginning of me wanting to act'.

How old were you when you played Dodger?

LEE: I was..
It was the year before I did my GCSEs.

I was 15.

PAUL: Was that when you I first started to
think 'Maybe I could do this as a job?'

LEE: Yeah, I think so.

Because before, I hadn't really had…

When I was at Stage Coach,
I actually had a teacher who wrote

in a report that I maybe shouldn't
be doing acting and that I wasn't…

I think because I maybe wasn't
the most front-footed or I don't know.

I don't know why she said that,
because I like it.

But I think it was that.

I think it was probably the first role
that I played where I felt like it

actually was like 'Oh, I can actually see
myself playing a character like this'.

I don't know.

I hadn't felt like before that,
there'd been anything that was tangible

or touchable that I could be like 'Oh,
I could see myself doing this'.

But yeah, and I think it
was obviously the feedback

from others as well, the encouragement
of teachers or fellow pupils

being like 'Oh, that was quite good'.

And then the thought of doing it,
but it's interesting because presumably,

PAUL: I don't know, did you
have any acting in your background,

in your family, or anything like that?

LEE: No, my family are all teachers.
So no.

PAUL: How interesting.

LEE: No acting at all.

PAUL: What about you suddenly
start to think 'Oh, I could do this'.

Then how did you get the idea
of 'Oh, I could go to drama school'?

How did that all-

LEE: That came about through National Youth
Theatre, which I did.

I did an intake course in 2018.

Then the following year, I went up
to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival.

Once you audition, then you
can audition for shows that they do.

That year, they were taking
a show to the Edinburgh fringe.

That was an amazing experience because
I was the youngest on that by, I think,

maybe four, maybe three or four years,
but I was the only one who was under age.

I was 17 and everyone else was legal,
which made it difficult because

everyone else was getting into clubs
and having alcohol.

I was a month away from 18.

It just felt like it was really hard.

But that was really
an informative experience.

Getting to chat to a group of actors
who already everyone was out there.

They either were at drama
school, auditioning for drama school.

It had never really been something
that I'd thought about.

I'd heard people talk about drama school.

But my mum had always been…

She was quite like, 'well,
let's go to university, get a degree,

have that solid, and then
you can always do something after'.

I think that if I probably haven't
got into drama school my first year

of auditioning, I probably
would have gone to university.

God knows what would have happened.
I wouldn't…

PAUL: That sounds a great opportunity
in Edinburgh, though.

What was the play?

LEE: It was called F Off and it was written by
Tatty Hennessy, directed by Paul Roseby.

It was about social media and Cambridge
Analytics and how you can be influenced

on Facebook to politically vote.

It was a bit of a comment
on the Boris Johnson

and the whole Brexit campaign and how
they managed to trick people with that.

Also what was going
on in the States and Russia.

It was entirely mad, entirely nuts.

But it was a great, great fun.

I highly recommend that actors work at
Edinburgh Fringe at some point because-

PAUL: No, I totally agree.
LEE: It's just so much fun.

PAUL: My first ever job out of drama school
was at Edinburgh Fringe,

and I agree, everyone needs…

All actors need to do it at some point.

You start auditioning for drama schools.

How many schools did you audioned for?

LEE: I auditioned for five.

I went Lamda, Rada, Guildhall, Bristol,

and another one, Mountview, I think.

PAUL: Where did your offers come from?

LEE: I had offers from Bristol
and from Mountview.

I think it was for me,
it was between Lamda and Bristol.

I think the only thing that pipped it
because I knew that I was going

to want to live in London
at some point as an actor.

I was like, why don't just get a foot
ahead and live there three years earlier?

Because I thought Bristol's
an amazing school.

I thought living in Bristol
would have been brilliant as well.

But it just seemed that it was easier
to be in London a little bit earlier.

PAUL: You turned up at Lamda.

How old are you when you arrived at Lamda?

LEE: Just turned 19.

Fresh face, 19-year-old.

We were still in COVID
at this point as well.

PAUL: Oh, my gosh.
Of course you were.

Oh, my word.

So your first year
of drama school was COVID.

LEE: Yeah, well, my final round
auditions were over Zoom.

PAUL: Wow.

LEE: I think I had...
I booked all my first rounds early.

I had all my first rounds in February, and
then we went into lockdown in the March.

I was in my last year of school.

I didn't sit my A-Levels.

PAUL: Oh my word.

It's so extraordinary.

It's so strange because you know
my daughter, Elsie, who

such a fan of Cowbois.

She's just done her A-Levels.

She just about came out the other side
of what you went through.

But I always feel when I talk to actors
who were training during COVID,

it must have been so hard.

How did you do movement?

How did you do- how did you
do lots of those things?

LEE: It was really, really hard.

I think we were in a little bit
in September and October and November.

Then there was that, because
they let everyone go home for Christmas.

There was the second- PAUL:Oh, yes.

LEE: And that was then when we were- we
were online for two months straight.

It's really hard.

I was on Zoom, running in and out
on my Zoom screen around my room in

a movement class, pretending to be fire.

I was like, I don't feel like fire.

I can see my neighbours looking in at me
going 'What are you doing?'.

I'm like, I know, what am I doing?

I don't know.

It was really difficult.

It was hard to stay motivated.

But I think the thought of knowing
it's not forever, it got you through,

but it was really, really difficult.

PAUL: How long was your training affected?

LEE: Just first year, really.

I think it was that middle, second term,
and half of third term of first year.

Then once we got back in second year,
everything was back to normal.

PAUL: So once you got to third year
and you're doing your final

shows, that was all fine?
LEE: Yeah, it was nothing.

PAUL: I'm always intrigued by this.

What did you play in your final shows?

What was your big part?

Usually, you get one really
good part, don't you?

At the end of Drama School.

LEE: Yeah.
PAUL: What was yours?

LEE: I was so lucky.

I got to play Connor in A Monster
Calls, which is an incredible play.

PAUL: Yes, I saw it at the Old Vic.

LEE: I saw it the summer that I
was with NYT, and I'd never

had an experience in a theatre like it.

The collective weeping and the power of

that piece of storytelling, it felt such

a full circle moment to get to do it,
and I had such an amazing cast around me.

PAUL: Who directed it, Lee?

LEE: An amazing director called Piers Black.

He's fantastic.

It was my first one as well.

It felt like…

At first, it took me a minute
to get my head on.

Then once I was locked in,
it was incredible.

Yeah, it was amazing.

PAUL: Then did you get an agent
on the back of that?

LEE: Yeah, I was really lucky.

My agent came to see that, spotted me
in that, and then I had an offer

and we weren't really meant to sign,
but I thought, 'Why the hell not?'.

I sent him an email
on Christmas Eve saying,

I think I'm going to go with you guys.

I'm really happy that I did because
it was the right decision for me.

PAUL: Brilliant.

Then I think I know this journey,
but I'm going to ask you again.

You come out of drama school, and at
what point do you audition for Cowbois?

LEE: I auditioned for Cowbois.

It was the summer term.

I was still at Lamda when
I found out I was doing it.

PAUL: Wow.

LEE: I'd met Charlie in second year.

They had come in to do an R&D
of a show that they're still

working on now, actually.

But at the end of that R&D, we got to read
through I, Joan which was going to be-

PAUL: Yes, of course.

LEE: I'd read the part of Joan,
and I'd just, from reading that, just

fallen in love with their writing
and was like, I need to make that work.

PAUL: I, well, it's interesting.
I had the same feeling.

I probably shared this with you when
we were rehearsing Cowbois because I went

with Elsie to see I, Joan on stage at
The Globe, not really knowing very much.

I had the same feeling.
I thought, I want to work with them.

I want to work with their writing,
and I want to be part of that.

I was similar to you
when I got an opportunity

to join an early R&D on Cowbois.

I said to my agent,
I don't care what it is.

I want to go and be part of that.

It was some journey, wasn't it?

Did you do any R&Ds as well,
or did you just go straight

into the rehearsal period?

LEE: I remember I did the read through.

We did some movement work.

But then it was just pretty much
straight into rehearsals.

PAUL: This time last year, of course,
we all turned up in the RSC in Stratford

for Charlie Josephine's, Cowbois.

It's always interesting, isn't it?

Now, obviously, you're doing lots
of plays, and you're doing one

at the moment, which we will talk about.

But that first day when you walk in a room
and there's all those different people

there, especially a play, it was a big
play, very big play in a way.

But I suppose there was such a diverse mix
of people in so many different ways.

I was obviously one of the more older.

I think I was the oldest person in acting
in the cast, but I loved the mix

and the dynamic of a family.
Do you know what I mean?

I suppose that's a lot down to Sean
and Charlie and all of those people

who brought us all together.

But did you feel similar?

It felt a bit like a family quite quickly.

LEE: Oh, definitely.

It really did.

It was a really, really special show.

I think it will forever have this glow
around it for me, for being my first one.

Just for the atmosphere,
the cast was so lovely.

Charlie and Sean were like our two
dads, and it was like, yeah, what is it?

It was amazing.
PAUL: Yeh, it did feel like that.

But I also remember watching you,
of course, in rehearsals.

I think because in the first scene
where various characters are established,

in which yours was one,
and then I enter this very dishevelled

and drunken Sherrif.

I remember literally being very taken by
your simplicity in the performance.

I thought, wow, it felt very assured.

When you then said, Oh,
no, I haven't really…

I was like, Wow.

I suppose, obviously, we all get nervous.

All actors get nervous
at some shape or form.

It doesn't go.

But how did you feel turning
up for that first professional job?

Did you know anybody, other than Charlie?

LEE: Yeah, no.

I knew Charlie.

I'd met them a couple of times.

I'd met some of the other cast
at other points, but not really.

I was pretty nervous
because I definitely...

I mean, yeah, the RSC was one
of my dream places to work.

I had a bit of a list as everyone
does when they leave drama school.

The RSC was on that list for me.

There was definitely
that element of pressure.

But I think just meeting everyone, it
was just like, yeah, it was so kind and

it was just such a lovely space and it
felt like such a friendly space as well.

PAUL: I suppose also because we moved up
to Stratford, I remember.

You know, to finish
rehearsals and then open.

I think it bonded us even more, I think,
that journey up to Stratford as a group.

We felt like we all looked out for each
other in some way as a group, didn't it?

When we moved up there.

LEE: Yeah, it's such an idyllic
and romantic place, Stratford.

We were all pushed together
because you don't know anyone else there.

I remember being in the pub.

Were you there that first night
that we were in the pub?

PAUL: Yes.

LEE: There was a group of locals
and they turned to us and went 'oh,

are you lot the cowboys?' It felt
like we were seeing the show about them.

We were like, Yeah, we are, but looking
around, we very obviously overtly queer.

We can't really hide from it.

Everyone knows that there's
this queer cowboy show riding into town.

We were altogether.

We were the outsiders.

PAUL: I do remember that.

I remember that very clearly,
what you should say is quite funny.

What I also loved was the journey
that audiences had with the show

because I remember feeling
a little nervous before we opened.

I thought, What are audience-
what will audiences make of it?

How will they respond to it?

There was a nervousness, I think, amongst
the company, and I certainly felt that.

But then what was wonderful was I
felt how, on the whole, the audience

was so warm in their response.

When you were out walking around Stratford
or having a cup of coffee after

we had opened, I often had conversations
with sometimes quite elderly members

of the audience who would stop me
and go 'We saw the show, we loved it.

We didn't know what to think at the
beginning, but we thought it'- I thought

that was It was a wonderful thing that...

And maybe a lesson to me not to prejudge
an audience, not to go oh, it won't be

their cup of tea, because on the whole,
I thought the audiences were brilliant.

LEE: Yeah.

I think we were really lucky.

I think because people knew what it was
about, even if people came in not wanting

to be politicised or change in any way.

I think once they realised that we weren't
preaching at them, we were just

telling a story and having a
really good time telling the story.

It was, yeah, they couldn't
help but want to get on board with it.

That was the most important thing.

We just had a great time doing it.

PAUL: Well, I think you summed
that up really well, Lee.

I think that's a brilliant description
of it because I think it infected people

in a sense in the audience.

They carried it.

Also, one of the brilliant things about
Charlie's writing and in that show is one

of the most important things
is to create a really entertaining

evening at the theatre.

I think that's sometimes overlooked.

I think they're brilliant at putting that
alongside all the other political things

and things that are going on.

It has to be entertaining,
and I loved it for that.

Anyway, we all enjoyed
that and everything.

Then you've gone on to bump into
your workshops of various things.

This sounds fascinating, this new The
Other Place, is that what it's called?

LEE: Yeah.

PAUL: With a very fascinating, intriguing
director, Alexander Zeldin.

Am I right in my introduction
that it's a reworking of Antigone?

LEE: Yes, it is a reworking.

PAUL: I don't want you to give too much away
because I'm going to come and see it

and I don't want to spoil it,
but listen, that's best.

Is that written and directed by Alexander?

LEE: Yes, it is.

We're constantly
working on it in the room.

It is constantly shifting and changing.

It's really exciting because it's always
fresh and really keeps you on your toes.

I feel quite fortunate
in that I've had lots

of different experiences with directors
and directors who also write as well.

I feel like I've had chance
to use lots of different kinds of actor

muscle, and I'm really learning,
and I'm really fortunate for it.

It's going to be a really
exciting job, I think.

PAUL: No, I can't wait.

I think I'm
coming in one of your previews,

and I can't wait to see it.

I also think it's interesting
as an actor, like you say,

to be challenged, to be provoked.

That's what we want, isn't it, as actors?

You want different experiences.

I always think of someone like Alexander
is a proper theatre maker.

Not just a director.

He makes theatre and makes that,

I imagine, I haven't worked with him,
but I imagine makes that in

the room with the actors as well.

It's not just
something that he creates on his own.

It happens in the room
at the same time, presumably.

LEE: Yeah.

It's a process that really
involves all of us.

The whole thing is that it…

Obviously, there's an element of that it's
there, but it's also it's really real.

Often, that is found in the mundane.

There's a lot of talk about doing stuff
around this dinner scene, and we're just

talking around eating food, and it
might not seem particularly interesting

on the surface, but once you really look
into it, you're like, what's going on?

And why is no one actually
saying what we should be talking about?

That's really exciting.

PAUL: Yeah, that sounds great.

It looks an extraordinary cast,
of performers.

I really look forward to seeing that.

I think this might have been
on your agent's website.

It was an allusion to some filming that
you've been doing, but I don't want you

to get - someone to burst through that door
and kidnap you by saying something

you're not allowed to say.

LEE: I haven't been told that I'm not
allowed to say anything.

I've been telling my mates,
you're my mate, so who cares

that this is a recorded podcast-

PAUL: Please tell me, what have you been doing?

LEE: I did.

I shot a film, a small partner film,
which is coming out in this country on

the first of January on New Year's Day
is called We Live in Time.

It follows Andrew Garfield and Florence
Pugh, their characters in this.

Yeah, just love story,
and it's really beautiful.

It was such an incredible experience,
and I felt completely chucked

in the deep end, and it was wild,
but I'm really excited to see it.

I'm going to the cast and crew
screening this weekend on Sunday.

PAUL: That sounds amazing.

Who wrote and directed that?

LEE: It was written by Nick Payne.
Nick Payne?

No.
Yes, Nick Payne.

Who wrote Constellations?

PAUL: Who wrote Constellations

yes.

LEE: It's been directed by John Crowley,
who directed…

It's amazing.

PAUL: Well, I look forward to seeing
that in the new year.

Now, you've talked about lots
of roles you played from Captain Hook,

from Dodger, all these things.

One role I understood you
played was as a role, was working

at Betty's Tea Rooms in Harrogate.
Is that correct?

LEE: Yeah.

PAUL: Yes, brilliant.

I have a couple
of questions around Betty's.

But before I ask you these questions, how
old were you when you worked at Betty's?

LEE: When I worked at Betty's,
I was in sixth form, so I was 17.

PAUL: Before you went to drama school?

LEE: Yeah, before I went to drama school.

My last two years at school, yeah.

PAUL: Is the original Betty's in Harrogate?

LEE: Yes.

PAUL: I've been to the Betty's that's in York.

When I say I've been to Betty's in York,
some people have been very snippy

and gone, That's not the proper Betty's.

Betty's proper is in Harrogate.

I'm going to have to take
myself to Harrogate.

Now, it's been a real joy
chatting to you, Lee, and I hope,

eell, I'll see you after the show.

I'll come and find you after
the preview of The Other Place

and we can have a beer or something.

But I want to finish by asking you
five questions about Betty's Tea Room.

That's the room.

The questions are about the price
of things on their menu.

Now, I know it was a few years ago,
but I just want to see how close.

If you can get within a couple of pounds,
I'll give you that as the correct answer.

LEE: Okay.

PAUL: On Betty's menu, how much would it be per
person for the traditional afternoon tea,

which includes a section of sandwiches
and miniature cakes per person.

You can get within £2.

LEE: I can get within £2.

I'm going to say that in recent
times, Betty's have probably up

their price, and I'm going to say
it's probably at least £24 per person.

PAUL: Wow.
They have up their prices.

It's £29.95.

LEE: £29.95.

In today's economy, Betty's!

PAUL: Okay, next question.

How much would the Yorkshire Cream Tea
be, including two baked sultana scones?

LEE: The Yorkshire Cream Tea.
What cream tea did you get?

Was it the special cream tea?

PAUL: That was the traditional afternoon tea.

That was the traditional-
Not with the champagne.

LEE: Not with the champagne.
It was £29.

PAUL: Not with the champagne.

The Yorkshire Cream Tea, it contains two
baked sultana scones and tea.

How much do you reckon that is?

LEE: That's going to set you
back at least 32 bob each, surely.

PAUL: It's £13.50 per person.

LEE: £13.50?

PAUL: Yeah.

LEE: Why was it £29.95

for the normal one?
PAUL: I don't know.

LEE: But the afternoon tea, so
what you could have on the other one

but with scones is less.

PAUL: Brilliant end to our podcast.

The Yorkshire Cream Tea is just
the two baked sultana scones and tea.

LEE: Okay, that was a mistake.
PAUL: Anyway, okay, now we're going to go.

If you wanted a piece
of seasonal cheesecake and berries,

how much would that be?
LEE: That's going to be £8.

PAUL: I'll give you that, £9.75.

If you ordered a Chocolate Eclair.

LEE: Okay, Eclair, so £4.60..

PAUL: £5.50.

Finally, from Betty's bakery favourites,
if you bought a Yorkshire Fat Rascal

scone, how much would that be?

LEE: I buy these all the time for my dad.

It's like £2.95..

PAUL: Way, Lee, think again.

LEE: Is it like, go low, go high, £3.50?

PAUL: Go higher for the
Yorkshire Fat Rascal scone.

Are you getting it takeaway, though?
LEE: Yeah.

PAUL: You might be getting it takeaway.

LEE: This is with jam, with cream, £6.70..

PAUL: You're very close.
I'll give you that.

LEE: Am I?
PAUL: £6.95

LEE: £6.95

PAUL: lee, can I say that is the funniest end
to any of the talks we've ever done.

LEE: I will take that trophy.

PAUL: That is your trophy.

I am so glad that we both
got so engaged and motivated around

the menu of Betty's Tea room.

LEE: I feel passionately about this.
PAUL: Exactly.

Lee, have a great rest of rehearsals
and a brilliant tech and previews, and

I'll drop you a message, and I'll see you
after the show when me and Elsie come.

LEE: Cheers.
Thanks, Paul.

Lots of love.
Great to chat to you.

PAUL: Thanks.
All the best, Lee.

Take care, mate.
All the best.

Bye.

PAUL: Dear listeners, if you've enjoyed this
idiot podcast, please spread the word.