PAUL: Hello and welcome to Regrets.

I've Had a Few.

I'm Paul Hunter, Artistic Director of Told

by an Idiot, and this is a podcast where I
talk to friends and colleagues delving

into what made them
the person they are today.

Hello and welcome.

My guest this month is an actor and writer

who has performed at the National Theatre,
the Kiln and London's West End.

His debut play,

Bullring Techno Makeout Jamz,
was winner of the prestigious

Bruntwood Prize and was critically
described as "utter, exhilarating joy".

He's also a fellow Aston Villa fan,

which is also a joy, and obviously
we'll be touching on that shortly.

Please welcome Nathan Queeley-Dennis.
NATHAN: Hello.

Thank you for having me.
PAUL: Not at all.

It's lovely to see you, Nathan.

I have to begin by saying when we first,

obviously we don't know each other
terribly well, but my first conversation

with you was when you were
on the stage door at the Unicorn.

And I think I was leaving
on a Friday evening.

And I must have said to you,
"what are you doing?

" or you asked me what I was doing

the weekend and you mentioned
football and I said "Who's your team?

" and to my utter surprise and delight,
you said, it was same as my team,

Aston Villa, which, being in London,
you don't always get.

NATHAN: There's not many.

PAUL: I thought you were going
to say Arsenal or Spurs.

I feel we bonded, obviously, immediately.

So I will, obviously,

I make no apology for this,
but there'll be many Villa references or

questions throughout
the following podcast.

NATHAN: I'm glad, I'm glad.

No one ever asks me enough
questions about Aston Villa.

PAUL: Well, I've got a few lined up,

I can guarantee,
especially following the show we made

a couple of years ago to celebrate
Villa's European Cup victory.

So, I'm sure that might pop up.

Anyway, it's lovely to see you.

I'll do what I usually do, which is
take guests back to the beginning.

So you're a fellow Brummie?
Brilliantly.

Whereabouts in Birmingham?

NATHAN: I'm from, I grew up in Erdington.

PAUL: Ah, where my father was born.
NATHAN: Ah cool, nice!

PAUL: And are all your family still there?

NATHAN: Yeah, everyone is still Birmingham based.

I have some family in other parts
of the country, but mainly Birmingham

between Erdington,
Handsworth and Small Heath.

PAUL: Ah so you're the one
that came away to London?

NATHAN: Yeah, yeah.
It was mainly for drama school.

I went to drama school in Essex.

I went to East 15 acting school.

And then after that
I kind of like worked abroad for a bit.

I worked for Vienna's
English Theatre in Austria.

And then I came back and then I was

between London, if I had a job,
and then Birmingham, where I'd stay.

And there kind of came a point where I

ended up moving to London,
but then Covid hit.

And then after Covid kind of,
like, started to...

the restrictions started to loosen a bit,
I kind of was at a point of,

do I stay in Birmingham again
or do I just make the move?

And then I eventually kind of made

the move, but I'm still not coming to
terms with the fact that I live in London.

PAUL: I know many Brummies who are like that,
but we'll come to that.

Let's go back right
to the beginning, in a sense.

I often start with this question,

but can you remember what your
first experience of theatre was?

Was that at school or a family trip?

NATHAN: My first experience of theatre
would definitely be...

there's quite a few.

I'm not sure which came first.

I remember at primary school, for example,
there was a lot of performances and I

think we're in Reception and I remember
everyone got given the angels,

but then I got given the donkey,
and the donkey actually had a line.

The line was like "eeyore" or something,

but that was pretty cool
for a four year old.

But then moving on from that,
my godfather's kind of in the industry

to an extent, and
if there was a new show on in Birmingham

or something, he'd always get tickets
for it and he'd always get my mum and dad.

And they brought me
to watch a show called...

I think it's this show really,

but they kind of got me to watch
a show called Elmina's Kitchen.

PAUL: Oh, yes, yes!

NATHAN: It was on at the Birmingham Rep and I was

definitely too young to be
watching a show like that.

But I remember really,
I think I'd maybe seen some pantomimes

and things like that,
but I feel like that was the first actual

play I'd seen and I must have been,
like, no older than eight.

But I do remember being like,
I identify so much with this.

It's set in a Caribbean food shop.
And I was like, oh, my gosh,

these are the spaces that are
existing in my life right now.

And it's the first time I
was like, oh, this is cool.

This isn't just...
I didn't know what anyone was saying.

I knew they said some bad words at times,

but that was the first time where I really
was like, this is quite cool, actually.

I do remember really enjoying it.

Felt like maybe the first adult
thing I'd ever enjoyed in my life.

PAUL: And it's interesting, I suppose,

especially when we're younger,
but as you say, to have an experience

where you kind of see something
that's like your life in some way.

Not exactly, but you're seeing things

where you go, oh, actually,
this does connect to me.

That's quite a big deal, isn't it?
NATHAN: Yeah, definitely.

Because I think at that point
I might have seen...

My mum was always really good at taking me

to the pantomime
at Christmas or something.

I usually go to the Hippodrome for that.

Or, like, a local kind of community centre
would have the smaller kind of panto on.

And that was always fun and stuff.

And then I'd always watch television,

I'd always watch, like,
the Simpsons or Power Rangers or anything

like the Powerpuff Girls,
anything like that.

But this was the first
time I was like, whoa.

I think I even remember watching one

of the characters and imagining it was
like, my brother's about 15 years older

than me, I remember watching,
being like, oh, that's my brother.

Do you know what I mean?

It's the first time I could really see
these characters as people that I

recognise from my life and I think I found
that really exciting from a young age.

PAUL: Yeah, it's interesting.

And do you think your,

you talk about your godfather and your
parents, do you think they chose that play

specifically to take you to,
or was it just by chance it was on?

NATHAN: I think both my nans couldn't babysit

because they take me out occasionally,
and as I got older,

I don't think they ever
pushed me into the arts.

I think the arts kind of came to me
in various different ways,

but they never shied me away from it,
which I'm really grateful for.

They never were like, no,
you can't do this, you can't do that.

They were very keen on if there was

something I was good at and I enjoyed,
they were very keen on keeping me at it.

So I think if it was something else, like,

they went to a lot of comedy nights,
they wouldn't have taken me,

but they're like, oh,
he's a bit young, but it's a play.

If it's too bad, we can take
him out of the interval.

But I was well behaved
the whole way through.

PAUL: So in a way, you've got your
two nans lack of babysitting -

NATHAN: Having a good social life.

Yeah.

PAUL: And what about school,
as you started to go through school,

did you get involved
in drama at school at all?

NATHAN: At primary school,
there wasn't much in the way of it and I

actually remember,
and I always did enjoy doing it.

I did the after school kind of drama stuff

at Primary School, if we had it for a bit,
but then it wasn't until Secondary,

where there was, like,
a youth kind of amateur drama group.

And

my Year Seven teacher was part of their
adult group and they were recruiting

for younger,
and I was just like, oh, maybe I can go.

And my mum took me in for that.

But even then I just did it
because I just thought it was fun.

I just was like, oh, this is fun.

This is better than playing rugby every
weekend, which I did at some times.

I was like, if one more person hits me,
I'm going to lose my head.

So I was like, this is much nicer.

And then we got to a point where

you get to choosing your GCSEs,
and I didn't choose Drama.

And I remember my two

Drama teachers from the school took me
away and were like, are you an idiot?

What are you doing?
Why are you not choosing Drama?

NATHAN: I think I wanted to be like

a Patent Attorney or something like that,
because I googled what pays the most.

And at the time it was
like a patent attorney.

If you worked for, like,

seven or eight years,
you graduate, and then after another five

or seven years, you'll eventually earn,
like, nearly three hundred K a year.

And I was like, great.
Well, that's what I'll do.

And they were kind of like, do drama.

And then they kind of made
me stop being silly.

And then I ended up choosing it and I just
really started to fall in love by the time

I started doing GCSE drama and actually
started to see it as something I would

want to do with my life
rather than just a hobby.

PAUL: It's interesting, that moment.

This comes up a lot when I chat
to various different guests.

There's often a recurring theme.

There's often a teacher or
teachers that provoke somebody.

And same here.
I had an english teacher that provoked me.

Similar to you, I had no show business
in my background, but a particular teacher

encouraged me to think
about drama and stuff.

And then there's a point like you just
touched on then, Nathan,

where you go when something goes
from being a kind of a passion or

an interest into thinking,
maybe I could do this.

Was there a particular moment or did

that gradually start to go, actually,
I want to try this as a living?

NATHAN: Well,

I love the drama and stuff,
but I still kind of just preferred

whatever you call it at secondary
school, like social life.

So I still preferred, like, oh,
I could do after school drama club,

or I could just walk home my friends
and hang out at the shops after school

and just mess about and stuff,
which I much preferred at that point.

And there was a point where the teacher,

I think they were doing like,
a production of Hairspray or something.

And I auditioned and I auditioned,
and then I remember there was like a final

audition and I remember just not going
to it because I was just like, oh,

apparently we're all going
to walk to this park today.

So I just did that instead.

And then everything started to kind
of just get away from me a bit.

I didn't really take Drama as seriously
or didn't really care about it as much.

I still just did it for the fun of it.

And then we did...

the next year, I think early on,
I must have been in year ten,

I think we had an after school thing
and I was like, yeah, you know what?

I'm going to do it.
And we did, like, improv.

Improvising and...
and I love improvising.

I don't think I do it as much as I'd like

to nowadays,
but we did a kind of improvising thing

and I can't remember quite what I did, but
I just remember going,

I think that's when I first realised, oh,
I'm quite good at improvising, actually.

And just all the teachers were like,
oh, you're doing such a good job.

And then that was also, like,
just after I decided that I was going

to do the GCSE kind of Drama and stuff,
and they kind of said to me,

I think they were like, we think
this is a really big year for you.

Just try and focus and try and keep your
head screwed on and really give it your

all because we really
think you good at this.

They just wanted me to get good GCSEs.

I'm sure they didn't think I'd be having

a career in it, but, yeah,
when that happened, that kind of positive

reinforcement kind of made me go, oh,
is this the thing that I might be quite

good at, actually,
just from improvising and performing.

And then after that,
I kind of just started to push myself.

But that moment there, I kind of,

towards the end of Year Ten,
after that whole year, I was kind of like,

oh, am I going to go and do, what am
I going to do when I get to college?

And, yeah, I just decided
to go for acting and drama.

I also had a good friend of mine
who's like, a couple of years older.

She's the Artistic Director of Women
and Theatre in Birmingham currently.

PAUL: Ah okay.

NATHAN: And she was at Stratford upon Avon College

and she was very much, like,
pushing for me to go for that.

And she's always been like a really big
kind of support for me and that I ended up

going to a completely different college
because a new one opened in Birmingham

that's a lot closer to me
than Stratford upon Avon.

But, yeah,

that kind of year and that kind of improv
class was the time where I was like,

actually, I think I'm going to properly
try and pursue this for as long as I can.

PAUL: It's interesting when you talk about
improvisation, and obviously,

improvisation is at the heart
of what we do at Told by an Idiot.

I mean, we do sometimes do scripts,
some good scripts,

Shakespeare occasionally, but most
of our work is made from improvisation.

And

I think it can be very empowering
for people when they improvise,

when they come up with stuff
that's from them or whatever.

And it's a thing that I still see

in workshops that we run and I still
experience when we do it ourselves.

Where you go, there's a kind of ownership
to that material which does empower you.

I can see why that felt
exciting, definitely.

NATHAN: Like you say, it's that empowering aspect,

that kind of agency over
your own creativity.

You can take it to where you feel
comfortable, where you feel confident,

where you want to provoke
yourself without.

It's just like almost your own authored
voice in a kind of chaotic landscape.

Yeah, I love it.
I love it.

Like I said, I don't feel
like I do it enough now.

PAUL: Well, it's interesting.
We'll come to your writing shortly.

I might touch on,
come back to the improv thing.

So you then presumably find out about
drama schools and start to apply.

You end up in East 15.

What course did you do at East 15?

NATHAN: I did Acting
and Community Theatre at East 15.

PAUL: Ah, okay.
NATHAN: Yeah.

So an acting course with a kind of focus

on community based theatre and making
theatre accessible for others and people

that maybe don't have
an access to theatre, per se.

PAUL: And when you went, there was your dream or

your ambition to solely be an actor,
or where did the writing start to come in?

Or what point did that start to?

NATHAN: I think the writing had
always been a kind of...

I don't think I ever saw myself
as a writer at that point.

And, I mean, I'm still trying to come
to terms with that, to be honest.

But I think
with that, what I liked about that course

is there was a lot of devising
and I loved devising.

I loved creating the same way with,
like we talk about improvising.

I loved having that kind of ownership
over the ideas that were made.

So we had the kind of standard East 15

acting training, but then applied
it differently and we made work.

We would speak to people in the community,

like people from old people's
homes, like young people.

Then we'd make their stories into plays,
either for them or with them.

And that whole kind of process
of collaborating and creating was probably

the most exciting thing about
the course for me personally.

And I'd say it's been there for ages.

Even at college, we kind of did a course,
and I actually found, like,

an old piece of writing I must
have written when I was, like, 16.

I found it, like, a couple of months ago,

and I read it and I was like, oh,
my gosh, this sounds like how I write now.

It's really interesting.

And at that point, I was just
doing something for college.

I never considered myself like a writer,
but seeing that I had that same kind

of energy in my voice and that same kind
of uniqueness in the way I like to tell

stories, and the fact that was actually
there when I was 16,

and I can identify that now more than
ten years later, it's pretty wild.

PAUL: Yeah, that's very interesting.

And again,
with devising that act of collaboration,

I think is really interesting, where
there's a collective imagination at play

as something starts to take shape, rather
than a kind of sole voice or whatever.

Obviously, I'm passionate
about that as well.

You come out of East 15 and then did you

go straight to Vienna
with the English Touring Theatre?

NATHAN: Yeah, effectively, I went to East 15.

I worked in America for a bit at a summer

camp, and then I had, like,
two or three months of just kind

of messing - no, not even messing about -
I got cast in the job in Vienna, like,

a couple of weeks after getting back
from America in September,

but we didn't start touring until January,
so then I spent the next two months just

kind of hanging out, biding my time,
waiting until I had to fly out, basically.

And then I was in Vienna for, well, not,

yeah, I was in Austria for,
like, six months.

PAUL: And what plays were you doing?
NATHAN: We did...

It was a play called Rob and the Hoodies.

It was like a Robin Hood adaptation.

I can't remember much
about it, in all honesty.

I remember it started off with a song,

and it was for audiences trying
to learn English, and it was really fun.

It was really fun.

I was really glad about that.

I went to drama school when I was just
turned 18, and my biggest kind of envy was

that everyone else there was a lot older
than me, and they were all like, yeah,

and I've done this and I've done
that and I've done that, and I was like,

oh, my gosh, I've just been in the
education system for my whole life.

So when I finished, I was like, I really
want to be able to work in the industry.

But I also want to be able to kind of live
life in the way that people think life

should be lived, which is
why I went to America.

And I was really glad to get
a theatre tour in Europe for a bit.

PAUL: Yeah, that's good.

NATHAN: When I came back from Austria again,
I went back out to America.

So then that whole year,

I was away for like, nearly ten months,
basically not in the UK.

PAUL: Wow.
And then obviously

you start getting more acting credits
and whilst you're doing your performing,

I suppose my question is,
where did the idea...

I am, right, that Techno Makeout Jamz
was your first play?

NATHAN: Yeah, it's my first full play, yeah.

PAUL: So where did that idea and very beginnings
of that idea start to germinate for you?

NATHAN: Interestingly enough,

after a kind of while of working abroad
and doing all that kind of stuff,

I was like, okay, I want to work
in the industry as best as I can.

And I found myself working in the same
pub I'd kind of worked in since I was 16.

And

I'm always quite proactive in the way I
manage my career, or I try to be, anyway.

So I was like, how can I get to a place

where I'm working in the places I want
to be working in with the kind

of directors and actors
I want to work alongside?

And I was like, you just need
to put yourself out there.

But it's one thing to put
yourself out there by emailing.

It's another thing to kind of perform.

So I saw there was the Monologue Slam.

So I initially applied
for the Monologue Slam,

and then when I was looking
for a monologue, I couldn't find anything

that great that I thought would be a good
show of kind of my talents and abilities.

So my friend again,
who I mentioned earlier,

she said she did it the year before
and she wrote her own kind of monologue.

And she was like,
you should just write your own.

And I went, yeah, actually,
I do enjoy writing because I can write

a three minute monologue that sounds
so reasonable and that's like fun.

So I just went about doing it,

and then after that, I end up making it to
the national final for the Monologue Slam.

And the fun thing about that monologue is

I've still got a clip of it
somewhere on some form of hard drive.

But the kind of three minute monologue I

did in that first Monologue Slam is
basically the first kind of two or three

pages of Bullring Techno Makeup Jamz
as it is today.

PAUL: That's fantastic.

So the real essence of that play
starts with you writing that monologue.

That's really interesting.

Does it change much from when
you did it to being in the play?

Is it structured the same?

NATHAN: I think because it was three minute
monologue, I gave it more of a definitive

end and then now it's just got
a more open ended kind of thing.

But honestly, it's pretty identical.

It's pretty much the exact same thing,
which is quite fun.

It's not changed that much.

And that was 2018, maybe 2017,
2018, I'm not sure.

PAUL: That's interesting.

So you do that monologue and then at what

point do you go, I want
to develop this monologue.

And how did you go about developing it?

NATHAN: Yeah, so after the Monologue Slam,
we had the national final later

on that year, and for it they were like,
do you want to do the same monologue?

And I just was like, no, actually,

I want to write the same character
about a different point in their lives.

So I wrote a new monologue for it and I

didn't end up winning,
but I had quite a lot of people come up

to me afterwards and were like,
oh, we really love it.

And they'd like, give me their cards
and like certain really cool theatres.

I was like, I'd love to work with them.

And they were like, yeah,
we'd love to read the full play.

And I was like, yeah,
I'll get that sent to you next week.

I don't have a full play, I have

two three minute monologues,
both at, like, five years apart.

I was like, oh, gosh,
I better get to work.

And then, I don't know, life just.

Things start catching up to you in a way,
and I never ended up doing it.

But off the back of the Monologue Slam,

I did start getting a few auditions
because I had no agent at this point.

I'd left my agent I first
signed with after drama school.

I had quite a few casting directors reach

out to me to audition for different things
and stuff, which was really great,

which is one of the reasons
why I did the Monologue Slam.

And I remember I did one monologue for

a theatre, for a show,
and I auditioned for it.

I think I was in, like,
the final two or three.

And in the end their feedback was,
we thought you were great,

but you just weren't an authentic
Londoner, which to an extent I understand.

But then also to another extent,
I was like, as a young kind of black male

from Birmingham,
if every role that I audition for,

I'm not London enough, I was like,
there's not many roles out there for me

because as a young black male,
most of the roles are London.

So I was like, oh, what am I going to do?

I thought I'd have a bit
of an existential crisis.

But then again, the way I was raised was

never to rest on your laurels
and to kind of be proactive.

And I was like, what can I do?

And I was like, well,
I do have a monologue that's about a young

man from Birmingham and people
wanted me to adapt it.

And then I think that day I might have
just been playing like FIFA or something.

And I just went, I just threw my pad down

and I just got my laptop out
and I started, oh, no, tell a lie.

Actually, I had that feeling
when I was in the...

because I was working at the pub still,
I found out in the pub.

And then I went in the pub and I was,
like, working in the celler.

And then I just went on the notes
on my phone and started writing a bit,

like developing a bit more
because my laptop was broken.

Then a couple of weeks later I'm at home

playing FIFA and I was like,
okay, no, what am I doing?

Let's get this started.

And then I end up writing
the kind of the first...

The play is split into four parts and I
basically end up writing the first part

of it in that two,
three hour period, basically.

And, yeah, then after that I end up
sending off for a thing called

Pint Sized Players, which gets an extract
of your play performed

at the Bunker Theatre, which is
at London Bridge near Borough Market.

And I end up being one of the five
selected scripts for that.

And that's when I was like, oh,
maybe I actually am a writer here.

And then I end up sending it off
for another thing called Four of a Kind,

which was with Wild Card Theatre,
and it was to get a longer extract

performed at the Vaults and I
end up getting selected for that.

Unfortunately, Covid kind of stopped that.

But from that point I was like, okay, no,

I'm going to get this play performed and
put on in the next kind of twelve months.

But then Covid kind of put
the brakes on it a bit.

PAUL: Even though Covid kind of interrupted it,
it felt the way you talk about it,

by then, the idea had momentum,
you know what I mean?

It was gathering traction.

NATHAN: Yeah exactly.

PAUL: It was becoming full length play.

NATHAN: And I think the thing that I.

And it's quite sad because I probably

won't be able to do this with anything
else I write in the future.

The thing that was great about this is

this is kind of a condensed four year
timeline of the play going from...

I'd just come to it whenever
I felt the need to write.

And it was kind of a creative
release for me, a creative outlet.

It was a chance for me to express
myself when I couldn't.

It's that kind of that thing we talk

about, the improvising,
the kind of ownership and stuff.

If I ever felt like I was losing that,

I'd always go back and write and then I'd
feel relaxed and calm again and really

happy with what I was doing
with myself creatively.

PAUL: It's interesting,

I totally hear what you're saying,
and you put it very clearly, in a sense.

So obviously at some point
this becomes this fully formed thing.

At what point do you decide
to enter it for the Bruntwood Prize?

NATHAN: Like three days before the deadline.

PAUL: Really?

NATHAN: So I realised because it took me so long.

And then during COVID I didn't really

write because some people
felt more creative.

During COVID some people felt less.

I was on the less side and I didn't really
look at it or touch it during that period.

And then it got to 2021 and I was like,

okay, I've had this play for like three or
four years, and these first twelve pages

have brought me a lot of joy,
but I need to knuckle down and finish it.

And I still had the same process of taking

my time with it, but I was like,
I need to finish it.

And then how do I get this put on?

What are the best ways to get it put on?

I looked, I still think it's really
unclear, as a kind of new writer,

emerging writer,
if you want to use the phrase emerging

and stuff like that, how you
can actually get a play put on.

There's not many clear kind of pathways,

and the only thing I could find,
outside of begging and pleading people

through emails that don't even know
who you are, was entering for prizes.

So I wrote out this whole spreadsheet
of all these different prizes and all this

kind of stuff, and I was like, great,
I'm going to apply for every single one.

And I don't know what happened,

but I basically missed every
deadline for all of them.

And the only one that was left was because
most of the deadlines are either

at the end of the year or at the start,
like around this time of year.

And it felt like the only one that I
hadn't missed was the Bruntwood.

And I was a bit like, oh god.

I didn't think that my play would stand up
well in that kind of field because

it's not just like new playwrights, it's
not just like a specific kind of pool.

It's like any playwright in the world
could apply for it, you know what I mean?

So I was like, a bit like.

I was like, but if I get to a point where
I can get some feedback,

and I was like,
three days before the deadline,

I just had another look through the play
and I just kind of was like, okay.

I had some notes, actually,
from a kind of independent free dramaturg

system that was really great,
called Freehand scripts.

And I got to work with
a really great director.

And then, and,
yeah, I got some notes from that,

which is the first time I really
got notes on the full play.

Like, one of the only people to have
read the full play before the prize.

Not many people had read it at this point.

I was just like, we'll send
it off and see how we do.

And then I kind of forgot
that I sent off for it.

It had loads of things go on that between
then and then I just got a phone call.

I was literally sat in, I think,
this room that I'm in now,

and I got a phone call and it was just
like, yeah, you've been shortlisted.

I remember just, like, going, oh, my God.

PAUL: And how many plays do they shortlist?

NATHAN: They shortlisted five

for the International prize,
which is writers from America

and Australia and other places as well,
which I can't remember the top of my head.

And then they shortlisted another nine
for the actual kind of three main prizes.

PAUL: And then what's after the shortlist?

What happens then?

NATHAN: You get invited to the ceremony

at the Royal Exchange and it's just like,
oh, ok, it looks like I'm going

to the Royal Exchange and I was
actually working on a show at the time.

I was doing, As You Like It,

at Soho Place in the West End
at the time and I was like.

And I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm going
to have to ask Josie Rourke for a day off.

I was how am going to go about this
and then I went up and she was just like,

well, you've been shortlist
for the Bruntwood Prize, it's amazing.

But also, we had this day off anyway, so,

because it was on a Monday,
which is weird, actually,

and looking back on it,
but thankfully it meant I could go and,

yeah, so I went to Manchester
and it's a long day.

It's a really long day.

You kind of meet everyone in the morning,

have kind of like a breakfast with them,
go and take pictures,

then you go to another place and have
lunch with everybody and then you get

a two hour break or an hour and a half
break, and then you go to the ceremony.

And in the ceremony,

we watch an extract of all of the plays
and you're just like,

I just want to know so that I can enjoy
the rest of my kind of evening and stuff.

But, yeah, it was a great day.
PAUL: Wow.

And then with the prize, do you get to
perform it at the Royal exchange as well?

NATHAN: Interestingly enough, with the prize,

there's not actually an obligation
to perform the show,

it's just that they will endeavour
to perform it as best as they can.

Very early on, after winning the prize,
we had a few kind of...

bit of interest,

but nothing kind of concrete until Paines
Plough offered a slot at Edinburgh Fringe.

But then it was like,
how can we make this work?

And I don't think the Royal Exchange were
necessarily ready for that at that point.

So then we had to kind of look
to see if there was any way...

but they were willing to co produce it.

And then, thankfully,
like a night in shining armour at the last

moment, my producer, Ellie Keel,
who just won the Stage prize,

the Stage Award for Producer
of the Year, actually.

PAUL: Brilliant.

NATHAN: She came through and picked up
the show and made it happen.

Thankfully, Actually...
Exclusive!

Exclusive!

We might be going on a tour
this year, so who knows?

Manchester could be.

PAUL: I really hope so, because obviously,
for lots of work and reasons,

I have not seen the play and of course
I'm fascinated to see it.

I was working when it was on before,

but to come to the play itself,
it's interesting reading about it

and interviews and various things,
and it sounds such a wonderful mix

of things in the play,
which really appeals to me.

I like the play.

I'm currently in Cowbois
at the Royal Court.

I like it because it's a real mix of tone

and we move from dance to song,
pathos to comedy.

And I get a similar vibe
from what you've done, Nathan.

But I'm also, obviously, as a Brummie,
I can really relate to it when you talk

about how sometimes as a city,
it feels slightly overlooked still.

And obviously I feel that.

And I went to Birmingham University,
took my daughter there for her interview

and she said "Oh, Dad, a lot of my friends
don't want to go to Birmingham.

They want to go to Bristol

or Manchester" and there's
nothing wrong with those cities.

But what is it about Birmingham?

Oh, people don't think
it's kind of a great city.

And I said, it's a brilliant
city with a real vibrancy.

So I could really connect to...

was that something also you wanted to try

and express in the play
about coming from Birmingham?

NATHAN: Yeah, definitely.

I think I've got this kind
of eternal chip on my shoulder.

And I think part of that is
from being from Birmingham.

And I love being from Birmingham.

I've love the city, I love the people,

I love the richness, the diversity,
the culture, the specificities.

There are certain things that, the only
ways that a Brummy would only behave.

I think there's a real nuance
to the way we act and stuff like that.

PAUL: Yeah totally, totally.
NATHAN: And I think the thing that's really good

about my play is you could
set it anywhere else.

But I think the humour especially is such
a humour that I think if I wasn't

from Birmingham, I don't think
it would be the same play.

And I'm really strong on that.

But, yeah, I started writing it because I

was told that there wasn't enough kind of,
that I wasn't an authentic London.

I was like, well, I need to make
a story that's Birmingham.

But I didn't want to make something

that was Birmingham and that was
only for Birmingham.

I wanted to make something that brought
Birmingham to a wider kind of audience.

And a lot of the feedback that I've really

kind of enjoyed that I kind of wanted to
set out for the play to do is it's like...

It is just a good play at reminding you

that, oh, people from Birmingham do
just live like a regular kind of...

There's nothing crazy about it in terms
of it is just set in Birmingham.

But I think a lot of that can come from.

And it has really specific
Birmingham references.

But I always say this thing that if I say

that there's a part of the show where they
go to a rave in Digbeth and people would

maybe be like, whoa,
well, we can't do that.

We don't know what that means.

However, if we watch, like, a Marvel film,

for example, and they say, oh,
we must run away from the tesseract,

you go, oh, okay,
the tesseract must be a bad thing.

If you can do it with a Marvel film,
you can do it with any kind of reference,

as long as it's specific to the way
it's written, you know what it means.

It's easy that you can
kind of go, okay, then.

Or maybe like in Digbeth,
it's like warehouse raves.

Oh, okay, then maybe it's kind of like
Printworks or something like that.

Do you know what I mean?

It's so easy as a Londoner or
from anywhere in the country.

And I think I just wanted to be
able to kind of harness that.

I said something, I can't remember what I
said, but something about being like,

I think being really specific about where
you are can sometimes add a really

beautiful layer of making
the show more universal in a way.

PAUL: I think you expressed
that brilliantly, Nathan.

I totally agree with you, to be specific
and the universal coming from that.

It's also, I think,

that thing about an audience really
sense when something is authentic.

I really do feel that.

And when we made our show, would you
bet against us with Birmingham Rep.

And then we toured it into Villa Park

and it was really interesting because
a lot of Villa fans came to see it.

And when they came up to me afterwards,
they said, oh, we really enjoyed it.

And then they'd say,
because you're one of us.

And I think they thought I was just
going to be this actor playing a part.

Whereas in the show it's me.

I mean, it's me, the way
that you are you in your play.

And I think that brings a level of
authenticity that both roots it somewhere.

But then also the experience
becomes bigger than that.

No, I totally agree.

And as I mentioned Villa, of course,
and we come towards the end of our chat,

Nathan, I have to ask
you a bit about Villa.

Do you remember your first game?

NATHAN: Yeah, I believe...

Oh, actually it's hard.

I'm not sure if it's my first game,
but it's the first game I remember.

We played Chelsea.

I sat in the Upper Trinity
and Darius Vasell scored a penalty.

PAUL: Okay, who was Manager then?

NATHAN: It must have been David O'Leary.
Must have been.

I think it was 2003 or 4.

I definitely went to a game before that,

but that's the first one
I remember, at least.

I might have been younger, actually.

It was definitely against Chelsea.

PAUL: I have a line in our show, Would You
bet Against Us about David O'Leary.

Where this is apparently a true story,

that when he was going bad at Villa
and we'd been beaten,

he was on Match of the Day and they
interviewed him and he basically started-

terrible decision - he started
to slag off the Villa fans on telly.

And he said, the problem with the Villa
fans is they're a bit fickle.

NATHAN: They're a bit fickle, yeah!

PAUL: And apparently the next home game,
it was a big banner that said

on the Holte End that said "We're
not fickle, we just don't like you".

NATHAN: We just don't like you!
I do remember that!

I remember seeing that in the newspaper
growing up.

PAUL: Again, very good roping you in.

So
on the Villa thing,

I always finish the podcast
by asking seven quick fire questions.

You say the first thing
that comes into your head.

Because I knew you were our guest,
all the questions are Villa related.

NATHAN: Oh, I love this.
This is great.

PAUL: Okay, here we go.

Would you take a top four finish or
would you rather we win the FA cup?

NATHAN: Top four.

PAUL: Douglas Luiz or John McGinn?

NATHAN: McGinn.

PAUL: Yes.

Winning an Oscar or scoring the winning
goal for Villa in a cup final?

NATHAN: No comment.
PAUL: No comment.

Very wise.

Holte's End or Doug Ellis Stand?

NATHAN: Holte End.

PAUL: Home kit or away kit this season?
NATHAN: This season?

PAUL: Yeah.
NATHAN: I think neither.

Let's go away.

PAUL: Okay.

Chicken tikka pie or hot dog?

NATHAN: Hot dog.

PAUL: Aston Villa Duvet or Aston Villa Pyjamas?
NATHAN: Duvet.

I had that growing up.

PAUL: Nathan, it's been an absolute
joy speaking to you.

NATHAN: Thank you so much.

PAUL: I can't wait to see your
play when it's on tour.

It sounds really brilliant,
and I think your journey has been a really

fascinating one and one I can really
relate to, and loads of people will.

It's been a real pleasure.
I hope to see you soon, Nathan.

NATHAN: Yeah, definitely.
What a pleasure.

Thank you so much for having me.
PAUL: Take care.

All the best!
NATHAN: See you late, bye bye.

PAUL: Dear listeners, if you've enjoyed this
Idiot podcast, please spread the word.