PAUL: Hello and welcome
to Regrets I've Had a Few.

I'm Paul Hunter, Artistic Director of Told
by an Idiot, and this is a podcast where I

talk to friends and colleagues delving
into what made them

the person they are today.

Hello and welcome.

My guest this month
is an actor equally at home on stage

and screen, from a plethora of acclaimed
Shakespearean roles including Romeo

and Pericles to highly successful film
and TV work, including How

to Get Away with Murder.

But most importantly,
he's a die-hard Aston Villa fan.

Welcome, Alfie Enoch.

ALFIE: Thank you very much, Paul.

Up the Villa!

PAUL: Well, I— well, indeed,
we will come to the Villa throughout this

podcast, um, at various points,
uh, given the importance of, uh,

of that subject to both of us.

Um, but, uh, thank you
for joining us, Alfie.

The first thing I'll do is what I always
do, is to take my guests back to their

first theatrical experience,
the first thing they remember seeing

in a live theatre context, whether
that's at school or with the family.

Can you remember what that might be?

ALFIE: Yeah, it was with the family.

It was Henry V at the Globe.

My dad played the King of France
in the opening season of the Globe,

and the first show they did was Henry V.

And the building was new and,
you know, they would, you know, there was

all that kind of excitement around it.

At least it was exciting for me as
something like an 8-year-old because

my dad was telling me all about it.

They were hammering
wooden pegs into the stage with the little

messages on them and things like that.

So there was always this,
all this ritual around it.

My dad was— I was interested in history,
so he was telling me all about it.

So by the time I got to the theatre,
I was already massively sort of invested

and excited by just being there in this
kind of strange Elizabethan,

mock Elizabethan building.

And the play was Henry V,
and Mark Rylance played Henry V.

My dad was the King of France, Erpingham,
and he did one of the chorus speeches.

And my wallpaper at home, at my
parents' house, is still painted blue.

Because I decided in honour of him I
wanted it painted blue and I

wanted fleur-de-lis in the corners.

Uh, my mum just sort of got an arbitrary
floral pattern, so I was

disappointed about that time.

Still, can't have them all.

PAUL: Well, that, that's obviously— we'll,
we'll come to this, but that's, uh,

brings us almost full circle to us, uh,
obviously recently, very recently meeting

and performing together in Henry V.

And how old were you when you
saw your father in the play?

ALFIE: I was 8, I think.

PAUL: Wow.

ALFIE: Yeah, I stood in the groundlings and it
was just— and I think it was the first—

it's certainly the first play I
remember seeing, first time I saw him.

Um, and I— it was just amazing, you know.

It was— there was such a strangeness to it
because all those early productions,

they were sort of working with original
practises, so sort

of young men played women.

And it— so it had this kind of fascination
for me because it really did

feel like going back in time.

And just sort of standing in the yard
with all these, you know,

hundreds of other people standing there—
that people must have opened a little

corridor to me because I've seen—

PAUL: yeah. And also look at watching your
father live for the first time.

Had you seen your father William Russell?

Had you seen him
on screen before the play, or—

ALFIE: I had, yes, yes,
I had seen him on screen before.

Um, I think again
the chronology is a bit muddy.

PAUL: Yeah, but it must have been very different
seeing him somewhere like that,

such an iconic and atmospheric space.

ALFIE: Oh, it was, it was incredible.

I think that, that's the thing
that kind of really hooked me.

Um,
I mean, it, you know,

my kind of memory of my childhood,
as far as my dad's career went,

I think things had sort
of reached a bit of a slowdown and he

was all right with that.

So he'd have the odd job,
but my prevailing memory is him just

sitting at home having a nap in the
afternoons and reading in the morning.

So I think I already thought,
that looks like a good job.

But then when I saw him up there,
that was— yeah, I mean, at 8 years old,

you sort of see that, it's magic.

So that completely—
that's had a kind of indelible impact.

PAUL: I suppose I, I think of friends who
grew up in a kind of theatrical

background, or parents were actors,
and I often wonder about this.

Can you—
was it an inevitable pull for you

following seeing this performance,
or was it something you resisted?

How did you— how did that journey happen
from obviously,

you know, being the son of an actor?

ALFIE: Yes, that's— to be honest,
I don't remember thinking,

ever thinking otherwise.

I think I always had the idea,
I want to do that.

Um, and probably that's just started in,
in the way that, you know, kids do, right?

The sort of imitation.

You just say, oh, my dad's an actor,
I want to be an actor, you know.

Um,
and in terms of seeing his other stuff,

you know, he had been in lots of kind of—
he was in The Great Escape and had done

lots of sort of 50s,
'60s war films and stuff.

So they were sort of on every, like,
summer holiday, Easter holiday.

Um,
so I would watch him or watch films

with people that he'd worked with,
and he'd be like, oh, Bob Shaw,

and we did this, that, or the other.

So it sort of always held
this fascination for me.

Um, and, and truly, I remember,
on my, my memory of it is that I wanted

to be an actor even,
even before I saw that Henry V.

And so when I saw that,
it sort of kicked up another level.

So then my dad,
I sort of badgered him to teach me

a sonnet because I was showing an interest
in all things Shakespearean at the time.

So he taught me this sonnet and I
performed it as part of the kind of

celebrations with Shakespeare's birthday.

They got actors to surprise people
who were on a walking tour with a

sonnet at every, you know, I don't know.

500 metres or something.

Um, and so that was the first
thing I ever performed.

So yeah, it did really kind of feel—
I don't know about inevitable,

that sounds, that sounds
a bit grand, doesn't it?

But, um, it— I never remember
wanting to do anything other.

And I was so fortunate because I had that,
you know, I had, I suppose I had that

interest nurtured from a very early age.

So that was, that was a gift.

PAUL: And also, I suppose, Alfie, inevitably—
not inevitably, people may

remember you when you were younger as
a performer because the opportunity

to act professionally came fairly soon.

How old were you when you were auditioning
around the Harry Potter series?

ALFIE: So I was 11 when I started doing that,
so I must have been about 10, 11.

PAUL: Wow.

ALFIE: And again, that, that,
that sort of happened very

very fortunately,
they came— the cast,

a casting team came to my school
and, and said, you know, we're auditioning

for these films that we're making.

And the, the first book had
been like an amazing success.

Yeah, obviously.

And was sort of among all my friends,
so we'd already— and we'd maybe read

the second one had come out, and we'd— so,
you know, everyone was thrilled to

get a chance to audition for this.

And so pretty much everyone in
my year and the year above auditioned,

which was the ages they
wanted people to audition for.

Um, but I I didn't.

Um, yeah, not just— yeah,
not for being a contrarian,

but, um, though I am, but, um,
I didn't want to—

I think I didn't want to do it and not
get it, which is absolutely ridiculous.

But, um,
I think for me there were already some

kind of stakes involved because
I knew I wanted to be an actor.

I already had— this was sort of like
part of my identity in some kind of way.

That was something I really wanted,
and I didn't want to audition and be

told I wasn't good enough, basically.

But I had kind of other, other reasons.

There was, you know,
I knew the books and I thought, well,

there's only one
Black character and he's older.

And so I was— there was a bit
of a question of like, is there

a place for me in these things?

But to be honest, probably at that age,
I was— the deeper thing was that I

didn't want to get a big no.

So I didn't audition,
but I was doing a play which,

with the NYMT,
the National Youth Music Theatre— oh yes,

yeah, strangely enough,
had started at the Globe.

It was a play about child actors
in Shakespeare's time,

um,
and they had come to my school

and auditioned kids,
and I ended up doing that, um,

and so someone from the casting team saw
me in that because we,

we then did a little tour,
and then they asked me to audition.

So I auditioned, and that's, that's how I
ended up doing Harry Potter for 10 years.

PAUL: Wow.

So it's interesting that in a way,
not that they kind of found you in a sense

after you'd sort of said— after you'd
obviously turned them down, Alfie.

They were— we'll have
to pursue this guy for sure.

ALFIE: Um, this is the big secret, Paul, I think.
Exactly.

PAUL: But obviously that then formed a huge
part of your teenage life, I assume.

I mean, yeah,
how often were you filming the films?

What was the gap in between them?

ALFIE: Yeah, it was—
goodness, I'd be hard-pressed to remember

in terms of gaps, but, um,
I remember the first film.

I remember this because
my dad was so shocked.

I think I shot something like 60 days.

PAUL: Wow.

ALFIE: And, and he said, we used to
make whole films in that time.

Two films in that time?
What are they doing?

But that was the scale of it, you know,
and I kind of had no

concept of anything other.

But, you know, you could see the thing,
you know, it's a £200 million movie,

whatever it is, you know.

So they built these extraordinary sets
and it was all at Leavesden Studios, which

was totally taken over by Harry Potter.

We also shot on location.

So it was quite periodical because
obviously I was only in a kind of small

chunk of the story, really,
and did— had a tiny part.

And I think that was the thing
my dad couldn't get his head around.

He's like, you've only got one line.

What are you doing there every other day?

But, but it was, you know,
because the shooting schedule was so long,

there were gaps in that period.

So there'd be sort of intense times
and then there'd be a gap,

which was really useful for me because,
you know, as it went on, I was at school.

And it meant I didn't have
to hand in my homework, basically.

So when I knew I'd be shooting,
I'd be like, oh yeah, no,

I think I'm not going to be there.
I said, I'll get it.

Oh, you can get it to me after that.

I was like, yeah, no,
I think I'm in the next day.

And I knew I wouldn't be.

And so, you know, I would just try and
hope the teacher forgot

about it or something.

So that was handy.

PAUL: But when you eventually, obviously,
you go through that I imagine,

rather extraordinary experience.

And you're now very much on— well,
you are an actor, of course.

Did you— what did you then think?

Did you consider drama school or did you
think, I'm going to go

to university and just keep working?

What was your thinking then?

ALFIE: I like that, by the way, Paul.
Very much an actor.

I'll take that.

I'll take that.

Yes, I'm like, that was a bit
of a strange one, actually.

So I went to uni.

And again, I think probably just very
unimaginatively, was just trying

to follow in my dad's footsteps.

He went to uni and he went to Oxford.

And I always just had this— I don't even
know how conscious this was, but at some

level I just thought, I'll do what he did.

So I went to Oxford and did a languages
degree knowing that I wanted to be

an actor, you know, knowing that that had—
there was no kind of great plan.

And sometimes people say, oh,
you know, that's good to have a backup.

And again, okay, that might be true,
but that— I wasn't really thinking

of it in those terms either.

Um,
I suppose I had this sort of sense of a

path before me which I was following,
maybe overly literally.

PAUL: But were you, were you acting
a lot at university then, Alfie?

ALFIE: So I'm not as much as I would have liked.

I have a lot of friends from that time,
many of whom are actors or in the industry

in one way or another now,
who did an amazing amount of plays.

I have one friend did something more like
20-odd plays, 21 plays

or something in 3 years.

And he did PPE.

I mean, just incredible.

And he's a wonderful actor.

But I didn't do so much.

I was a bit timid because
I was still filming Harry Potter.

So I didn't— I felt like I couldn't—
I felt like I couldn't go and audition

for something and say,
'But you know, I might not be available

when it's actually on because I may or may
not be filming a multi-million pound

movie.' I just thought
that wouldn't be a very good look.

So, uh, so I didn't do as much
in the first couple of years.

I did the odd bit here and then when I
knew I had a gap in filming,

but then in my last year I'd finished—
I'd finished the films,

had finished by then, and I sort of threw
myself in and did a lot of plays.

But when it was coming to the end,
a lot of my friends from drama

at uni were applying to drama school.

People in years above had gone
on to drama school, applying or whatever.

And I remember being terrified
by this prospect, Paul,

because again, it's the same thing.

Probably there's a bit
of that in the plays that I didn't do

in the first couple of years at uni.

I didn't want to get rejected.

I was terrified at the thought of it.
I thought, what happens?

I've wanted to do this all my life.

And, you know,
here I am, I've got an agent, I've got

a— what if I audition and I don't get in?

But I was kind of spared.

Well, you know, maybe let off
the hook is a better expression.

But my dad had really
strong opinions about this.

And he said to me,
don't go to drama school.

Absolutely don't go to drama school.

He had directed at LAMDA in the '70s.

PAUL: Okay.

ALFIE: And had, for all I know, a good experience
there and taught lots of fantastic people.

Jim Broadbent once came up to me
on the set of Harry Potter and said,

"You're William Russell's son,
aren't you?" And I said, "Oh yes,

I am." You know, I'm glowing inside.

He said, "He taught me at LAMDA.
He was wonderful.

Send him my regards."
You know, that was like, for me—

PAUL: That's very cool.
ALFIE: Isn't it?

That was like, genuinely like the
best of many good things that happened.

PAUL: But I don't know, I don't know what you
feel, but Jim Broadbent is one

of my favourite actors of all time.

So that's very cool.
ALFIE: Right?

That's exactly— I mean, he is
exceptional and just— he was so— that was

such a generous thing to do, you know?

And also, I had no idea how he knew,
you know, because we have a— I spent—

my dad was Russell Enoch for a period
of his career, but mostly

it was William Russell.

So I don't know how he made
that connection, but that was so generous.

And as you say,
he's an extraordinary actor.

PAUL: So you followed your father's advice.

ALFIE: So I followed his advice.

Yeah, I was, you know, I
availed myself of the kind

of get-out-of-joke-free card because,
as I say, my insecurity was probably

churning away in the background.

But,
but he was very stringent on that because

he— I had applied, applied,
I'd sort of signed up to do drama GCSE

at school because I thought, you know,
I want to be an actor, I like acting,

why am I not going to do that?
And he told me not to do it.

He, he, he made me give up drama at GCSE.

Um, so I, you know,
I never quite got to the bottom.

I think it was just about— I don't know,
just the way he had seen acting taught.

And it wasn't his experience because he
came up through, you know, he went

to Oxford and then went into weekly rep.

PAUL: Yes, of course.

ALFIE: So he had a totally
different kind of context.

PAUL: And, you know, in a sense,
for your dad's generation And, and,

and in a way, that, like, weekly rep
was almost the training, wasn't it?

Well, exactly, exactly.

And, you know, in a way that— well,
not in a way, but that was— I suppose

looking back at it,
that was my problem because I didn't

have a weekly rep to go into, you know.
So I—

PAUL: what did you go into,
a fringe productions or what?

ALFIE: Yeah, I did.

I— so I finished uni and I already had
an agent thanks to Harry Potter,

and I thought, well, I'm just
gonna go out there and work.

We took a student show up to Edinburgh,
um, which did quite well.

We were flyering for hours on the mile,
but it, but it worked.

We managed to,
you know, sell out the show.

Um,
and then I got a little telly, a pilot,

and then I got a fringe show
at the Old Red Lion, which was my first -

PAUL: Ah great venue

ALFIE: - professional stage show.

It's amazing, isn't it?
There's two sides.

It's lovely and you can hear
the football downstairs.

We would have Sunday, and that,
that was a bit—

half the time when we had only,
you know, we— that didn't sell as well.

Sometimes we had 4 people in the audience,
and I thought, I'd rather be

downstairs watching the football.
Summon the courage.

Um, but that was a kind
of extraordinary thing.

I was, you know, paid £100
in cash in the cafe next door.

PAUL: Oh yeah, that first That first— yes,
that first theatre payment is

an exciting moment, isn't it?

ALFIE: Well, yeah, especially over a full
English that you imagine back then.

Actually, the full English didn't take so
much of a— didn't take so much of £100,

so that was good, you know.
That was—

PAUL: so I, I'm,
I'm obviously interested because we've

just worked together on Henry V, and,
and Shakespeare is obviously

a real passion of yours.

And, um, what was the first
professional Shakespeare you did?

ALFIE: Oh, Timon of Athens.

PAUL: Wow.
ALFIE: Yeah, it was Timon of Athens.

So that was a little bit after I did
that Fringe show

and quite sort of as I came off that,
I got a couple of jobs at the National.

And, you know, there was I thinking
to myself, I'm set, you know,

I'm working at the National,
this is perfect.

And it was a production of Timon of Athens
directed by Nick Hytner

with Simon Russell Beale playing Timon.

He was incredible.

And I think, you know, it's— I
don't know how you feel about this, Paul,

but I always struggle to get a sense
of something from the inside, right?

But, um, but I just think
that production was really good.

It was, it was contemporary.

It was a sort of financial crash
parable, right?

So this was 2012.

Um, and it was sort of one
man's credit crunch, you know.

Time and loans, just pays
out too much money and then,

and then his ships don't come in.

So Simon was incredible.

It was all sort of contemporary
and recognisable environments in London.

So the first scene,
it was like he was unveiling— he was

a sort of benefactor unveiling
a new wing at the National Gallery.

PAUL: Wow.

ALFIE: It was, it was really, it was,
it was really well thought through.

There were scenes at the Houses
of Parliament, Soho House.

It was all very that recognisable kind
of urban liberal metropolitan elite.

And Simon Russell Beale was incredible.

And this was one of the things
that was amazing about it.

I had a part which in the folio
doesn't even have a name.

He's called Servant
and he has a soliloquy.

So I was there doing my first, you know,
experience, professional job,

and I had bits and bobs here and there.

There's one scene where the character goes
out, sent out to go and ask for money,

a loan from someone he's treated very
generously in the past, gets a big no.

I got to turn out at the end of this scene
and speak to the Olivier,

which, you know— Wow.

I just remember, goodness, Paul,
the first time I did it, it was like

jumping out of a plane or something.

It was the exhilaration.
It was amazing.

I was on such a high that first preview.

Just remember the scene finished.

I turned out and it was like being
in a football stadium, you know?

I mean, it felt like that.

Like, it felt so steep in that moment
and it felt just like a wall of people.

And that was just
the most thrilling thing.

I mean, to this day, I love that when you,
when you get the— I, I, yeah,

I wonder how you feel about this.

PAUL: I imagine you're like, Funny,
it's funny in a way, isn't it?

Because
that thing that Shakespeare sometimes does

where he, he puts something
in the mouth of a character that

feels quite peripheral sometimes.

And I think there's a kind of
that sense when he leaves a character

alone to address the audience
when they're not necessarily the lead

part, I think is really
interesting dynamic.

Moment.
ALFIE: I'm so with it.

It's amazing, isn't it?

I mean, it's like we've
just been doing Henry V.

I always think the Williams speech.
Yeah.

Or the battle, you know, which as
in the text, he's in that one scene.

And I think he— that's sort of— I've
always thought that's

the heart of the play.
You know, he says—

PAUL: you're right.

And I felt it emotionally at the very end
when finally Pistol is left alone and he

shares with the audience
the news that his Nell is dead.

Yes, yeah, kind of vulnerability of this
braggart who's been full of bluster

is slightly punctured for, for a beat.

Obviously not forever, but for— with a—

ALFIE: depending on leaks and other business.

PAUL: Exactly.

You mentioned Henry V,
and we've just come off that together,

and what a joy that was.

And obviously, I, I— we've talked about
this, but one of our joys,

big joys, was to, as fellow Villa fans,
was to go during rehearsals and watched

them play in the Rosenkraut
pub in Stratford.

Um, I have to ask you, you said about your
nervousness about being rejected.

Is that why you turned down
a trial with Villa-Alfie?

You can say it publicly here if you want,
or we can keep that to ourselves.

I won't go any further.
ALFIE: It's hard when it means too much.

You know, of course I couldn't play
with freedom,

with the responsibility and the making
a connection with the supporters,

do all that good stuff that Unai requires.

PAUL: I thought, of course, I understand that,
but I had to touch on that anyway.

Aston Villa is a big deal for you and I.

Um, and Alfie, it's been really lovely
chatting, but I'd like to finish, yeah,

if I may, um, with, uh,
the way I always do, which is

to ask my guests 7 random questions.
ALFIE: Great.

PAUL: Because of your love for Villa,
all of your questions are Villa related.

So I make no apology to any listeners
who don't know who Aston Villa is

or indeed support any other team.

ALFIE: So yeah, quite right too.

PAUL: But you could just say the first thing
that comes into your head, uh, Alfie.

Here we go.
Youri Tielemans or John McGinn?

ALFIE: Oh, oh, Youri Tielemans.

I feel so dirty saying that.
That's all.

PAUL: No, no, that's good.

Now we're talking about
food at Villa Park.

Would it be a chicken balti
pie or a lentil vegan pie?

ALFIE: Chicken balti pie.

PAUL: Um, here, this is a multiple choice.

What did 1980s centre-half
Chris Nicholl infamously do?

Punch a referee,
chase a dog off the pitch, or score all 4

goals in a 2-2 draw with Leicester City?
ALFIE: It's amazing.

Um, Uh, I'm gonna go with the 4
goals if that's true.

PAUL: You are absolutely correct.

ALFIE: That is incredible.

PAUL: Would you, would you play Hamlet
or Villa win the double

of Premier League and Champions League?

ALFIE: Oh, that's horrid.
That is horrid.

PAUL: You don't have to answer that one, Alfie.

ALFIE: Yeah, okay, I'll keep
my counsel on that one.

PAUL: That's a good pass.

ALFIE: Not least because I'm not sure.

PAUL: Um, would you have dinner with Unai Emery
or lunch with William Shakespeare?

ALFIE: Ah, yeah, that's fantastic.

PAUL: You can use your second pass if you wish.

ALFIE: No, no, no, I've had one.

I can't, I can't be, um,
Shakespeare's been dead and buried in the

earth for 400 years, so I'll go for Unai.
I think he'll be better.

PAUL: Perfect answer.

Uh, now we come
to Aston Villa celebrities.

To choose between Tom Hanks
or Prince William?

ALFIE: Tom Hanks.

PAUL: Excellent.

And finally, BAFTA nomination
or score a goal at the Holt End?

ALFIE: Oh my God, goal at the Holt End
was where my heart went.

PAUL: Remember Alfie, it's only a nomination.

It's only a nomination.

ALFIE: Yeah, well, yeah, if, if, if I never get
one, I'll remember this conversation.

PAUL: Alfie, thank you so much.

And you and I, I'm sure,
will touch base over the next week,

few weeks, as Villa continue
their amazing European venture.

ALFIE: Here's to that, Paul.
Here's to that.

PAUL: Thanks, Alfie.
Have a lovely day.

ALFIE: Yeah, you too, Paul.
Cheers.

Thanks for your time.

PAUL: Dear listeners, if you've enjoyed this
Idiot podcast, please spread the word.