PAUL: Hello and welcome to Regrets,
I've Had a Few.

I'm Paul Hunter, Artistic Director of Told

by an Idiot, and this is a podcast where I
talk to friends and colleagues,

delving into what made them
the person they are today.

Hello and welcome.

My guest this month is a dancer,
choreographer and teacher who has worked

consistently in the UK
and across the world.

He is a regular performer with the award
winning Kate Prince ZooNation Company

appearing in shows such as 'Into the
Hoods' and the 'Mad Hatters Tea Party'.

He can currently be seen in the acclaimed

adaptation of The Matrix 'Free Your Mind',
directed by Danny Boyle.

And he was also the only reason

that my son, when he was two years old,
would eat his vegetables.

More of that later.

Welcome, Mikey Ureta.
MIKEY: Hello.

How's it going?
PAUL: It's good.

It's good to see you, Mikey.
Really good.

I'm so glad you could join us.

And I know you're very busy,
so I won't keep you long.

I'll come to why you're busy.

Well, I mentioned it in the intro,
this extraordinary new show that sounds

amazing in this extraordinary venue,
but we'll come to that later.

But what I always do at the beginning
of these things is

kind of start at the beginning,
in a way, performatively speaking.

And I just wondered, what,
could you remember your first experience

of seeing live performance
and what it was and where it was?

MIKEY: I actually do,

and it's funny you mentioned that,
because watching a live performance when I

was a very young kid was one
of the reasons I got into dance.

And I believe the very first one that I

can recall is watching Into 'The Hoods',
originally at the South Bank Centre

with my mum, and I believe it
was 2008, around that time.

And I remember it's the first time I'd
seen anything hip hop or anything dance

related on stage, and it
just blew my mind away.

My mum walked away with the leaflet
for Z Nation and for 'Into The Hoods',

and on the last page,
it said something about classes every

Saturday, and then I just kept
bugging her to sign me up.

And a couple years later, here we are.

Or more than a couple years now!
PAUL: Wow.

That's amazing.

So you grew up in London, is that right?
MIKEY: Yeah.

Born and raised in South London.
London.

I used to watch YouTube videos of some
dance stuff, but it wasn't anything crazy.

And I think that was the first time it

clicked in my brain that, wow, this is
something that I really want to do.

I want to be performing on stage, doing
what these amazing dancers are doing.

PAUL: Wow.

So there was no kind of dance in your
family, in your background or anything?

MIKEY: So my dad and my uncles used to mess
around when they were little,

but I think dance wasn't so much
of a little thing back in the day.

So there was less opportunities
for dancers, so people did it more as

a hobby in their friends groups but it
wasn't anything serious and it was only

until up until recently where you start
to see it on TV and on stage and in music

videos it's become more a thing
for the world that's been out there.

PAUL: Yeah, that's very interesting that,

I suppose which you're very much part
of the bigger journey of dance for your

generation and how big that's come,
we will touch on that later.

So you're eight years old,
you pester your mom and then you turn up,

I assume on a Saturday
morning for a class.

What was that first class like?

Were you nervous?

MIKEY: I was nervous.

Luckily, when I walked into the room,

I saw one of my friends from school
in the corner in a lunge position because

they were all stretching and I think all
my nerves kind of went away because I knew

that there was someone there that I
could connect with and bond with.

So I didn't feel so much on my own,
but it was nerve wracking.

There's so many amazing kids there and I

remember starting at ZooNation
in the beginner's class and seeing

the different classes
and the different levels.

It was just so inspiring for me and I
think it touched something in my heart

where I wanted to work my way up and just
improve and learn as much as possible.

So I was a very young kid, very inspired,
very much small fish in a big pond and I

loved the feeling of it,
I love the feeling of learning.

PAUL: That's amazing.
So that first class like you say,

and then hopefully you met a pal
from school and everything.

So were you continuing to dance
outside of the classes?

Were you watching things and looking

at stuff and was it becoming
a bit of a passion for you?

I suppose?
MIKEY: Yeah, 100%.

And I think I was at the age

and at that point in life where YouTube
was becoming a really big thing.

So I used to obviously go
to ZooNation every Saturday.

I used to tell my friends about it
at school and I used to mess around

in the playground trying to teach myself
how to flip, like really hurting myself,

just throwing myself about, but just,
I wanted to learn how to do this.

So you just do it every day.

And then it ended up being a thing of I
would like, type in ZooNation on YouTube.

I would watch all their videos and then
I would be recommended to other dance

videos and I'll just be trying
to absorb as much information.

And I remember being a little boy

at a screen, I would stay there for hours
watching loads of random dance videos.

Just be inspired.

PAUL: Well, that's a really obviously,

I'm a parent and, you know,
my family and you've met my kids growing

up and everything, but that feels to me -
you hear so many negative things about

people looking at screens
or watching stuff.

And that seems a really positive way
of going "I'm going to learn something.

I'm going to watch this thing,
and I'm going to watch what someone does.

And then I'm going to go to the playground
or the park, and I'm going to try and do

that." That's basically
what you were doing.

MIKEY: Yeah.
I was getting so much inspiration and I

know there are so many negative
connotations of social media and staring

at screens nowadays, but there is
inspiration to take from that.

And for me, where I was at my life,
being such a young kid,

looking for inspiration and role models,
anything dance related, really caught me.

And I felt like from a young age,
I knew what I wanted to do,

which I'm very proud of and very
blessed and grateful to have been.

In that position from a young age,
PAUL: That's amazing.

And also, obviously, I know a little bit,
but nowhere near the amount that you do.

I mean, intrinsically,
with the hip hop and everything, we're

looking at a form that comes
out of America, aren't we?

That's fundamentally where it is. So when

you were watching those videos,
were a lot of them American dancers or

American things, or was it
a mix of American and British?

MIKEY: It was a mix of American and British,
but I would definitely say

there was more to be inspired from,
from America, because it was so much

of a bigger thing than it
was here at that time.

Dance in the UK has improved so much over

the last ten years and there are so
many more people who have access to it.

But definitely when I was a bit younger,

there was a lot of American TV shows
that like 'America's Best Dance Crew'.

I used to watch all of those seasons
and just get inspired and even stuff like

'Britain's Got Talent' and 'Got To Dance'
when I was younger, before I actually did

it, there was so much inspiration
to take from the UK as well.

PAUL: So you're doing that on a Saturday
and you're also, obviously at school.

At what point
does it become more of a formed idea

for you that this is
something that you could do?

Because I'm always interested
in that point, when I speak to actors or

directors or you a dancer,
what is the point where someone goes,

maybe this is what I could do,
it doesn't have to just be a hobby.

Where did that start to happen for you?

MIKEY: That's an interesting question.

I think starting off as classes
in the beginner's class and intermediate

class, it was about training
and it was about learning.

This is something I wanted to push for.

I think after a certain point,

you start to get those performance
opportunities like the ZooNation Christmas

show, and you get that feeling
of being on stage.

And once you get to advance,
you become part of the youth company.

There's so much more performance
opportunities out there and I think

that really lit something in my heart and
it made me feel like, I want to do this.

Also, seeing my teachers performing
on stage and performing on TV,

it gave me something to aspire to and
something to try to work my way towards.

There was a career path.

You could see the journey of it.

PAUL: I think that's worth saying
for those people who don't know.

And obviously I'll come to my son Dexter

and his journey as well,
and our journey of meeting you,

but I think it's worth saying,
I think you describe it brilliantly.

I think what ZooNation are fantastic at
is that sense of giving not young people,

not just an opportunity,
but a sense that things are possible.

And I think what I love is,

and you mentioned those Christmas shows,
and we as a family loved them.

Obviously we went to see Dexter when he
was little, but those Christmas shows

at the Place Theatre,
where it wasn't just about the kids,

it was a mix of very experienced
dancers down to the littlest kids.

It was a whole evening where
everything was mixed together.

And I think that's quite unique and I can
absolutely understand why that's inspiring

to think, well, maybe this is possible as
I progress and move through these

different kind of levels, I suppose,
it is possible, but I'm always aware when

I talk to you and when I see you,
and brilliantly, we're going to see you

again soon, briefly with that,
we bring 'Get Happy' back.

I'll come to that in a minute.

There is something obvious about what you
do, which is a very tangible skill,

which you have to learn and you have
to keep learning, because obviously,

if I try to do what you do very quickly,
the audience realise "he can't do that".

So it's a bit like music, I think,

when someone plays an instrument,
you know what I mean?

It's tangible, you see it.

But what I love about the work I've seen
you do and indeed ZooNation,

is not just the skill which is there,
but the kind of spontaneity

and the pleasure and the enjoyment
that's wrapped up in that.

Can you talk a little bit about those two
things, the technique and the pleasure?

MIKEY: I suppose, yeah, I think the technique
is obviously very important.

The higher level,

you want to be as a dancer,
as an artist or as a creative,

so you definitely want to spend those
hours training and improving

that technique with repetition
and understanding.

But on the complete opposite side

of the coin, it has to be a passion for
you to want to improve your technique.

You want to have a passion
and joy and love for doing it.

I think for me, the best way to describe

it is when you're out and you hear a song
that you like, your body naturally moves,

even if it's a head bob
or you tap your foot.

There's something about that music that
inspires you and takes over your body.

So I think for dancers,
it's a very similar thing.

Most dancers,

if you put them in a position where
there's music playing and they're

in a good space, you're going
to see them move a little bit.

And I think it's that inspiration of there

has to be a balance of, yes,
I want to be technically better

and technically skilled,
but at the same time,

I need to enjoy moving and trust in my
body in the way it interprets music.

PAUL: That's a brilliant description.

Yeah, that's really spot on.

I hadn't really thought of it like that,
but that's brilliant.

So we move forward to when I first

encountered you with our
show, 'Get Happy'.

And actually, it was purely by chance.

It wasn't that we were looking for a
performer like you from your background.

I had an idea around this,

creating a family sketch show,
and that was my initial idea.

And purely by chance,

we as a family went along
to the South Bank Centre to see ZooNation

do 'Groove On Down The Road', the version
of The Wizard of Oz, and you were in it.

And it was our first experience
of ZooNation as a family.

And I absolutely loved it right
from the beginning, when,

before the show, you heard on the sound,
someone saying,

this isn't ordinary theatre,
this is hip hop theatre,

and the crowd went mad and I
thought, this is brilliant.

And then on you came,
and your brilliant comrades,

and we all loved it,
but particularly my son Dexter,

who three or four years old,
whatever, absolutely adored it.

And we thought, God, this is interesting
that he's really gone for this.

And of course, then I suddenly thought,
partly inspired by Dexter's reaction,

I thought, what we need in our show is
someone that has that skill and that world

if we're going to try and reach
a very wide audience in the show.

So then, as you know,
we then started to I think we approached

ZooNation, said, can you
recommend some people?

And you were on that list.

And I don't know if you remember this,

but me and my dear late friend,
our colleague Stephen Harper,

who was in the show, I said, Steve,
you need to come and audition

with me, you know, so they
meet someone who's in it.

And we got a room somewhere,
I think, down in Euston.

And I remember you coming in and we'd
asked you to prepare a physical sequence,

and then you did this extraordinary
sequence and me and Steve were like, wow.

And then I remember when you went
out of the room, steve said,

I was really worried because the roof
is quite low and he sprang so high.

Wow.
I just remember him saying that.

And then, of course, you joined us

in two roles, really, which you do as
a performer and as a choreographer.

And obviously our work in some ways is
very different to some of the work you do.

It's maybe more theatre
and it mixes things.

It mixes dance and comedy
and physical comedy.

What was it like when you
kind of first joined us?

Because it was probably a bit
of a different step for you, wasn't it?

MIKEY: Yeah.

If I'm correct, that was 2013,
I believe, or ten years ago.

I was 17/18 at the time.
Wow.

It was my first show outside
of a ZooNation show that I can remember.

So I also remember coming to the audition

and I also remember how low
the roofs were in my mind.

It's just a mental memory
that I always remember.

But it was so eye opening for me

and obviously, being at that age,
having an opportunity to perform

at the Barbican and to meet new people
and explore theatre in a different way,

which isn't maybe so dance heavy
and there are other aspects and other

skills involved in the show
was really eye opening for me.

I didn't really know what to expect.

And I remember coming to the audition
and having to rip the sleeves or sleeve

and do a few of those scenes
and the hat tricks and stuff.

But I just remember having a joy in myself
of, wow, I'm really enjoying myself.

This is amazing.
And it opened up my eyes to a whole

different world of theatre
and a whole different side of things.

And I think for me,

it also gave me an opportunity to develop
who I was outside of ZooNation and gave

myself a personal opportunity
to obviously perform in a show like that.

It's a show I hold very dear to my heart.

PAUL: Well, you're a very special part of it.

And the joy for me was, you
know the two seasons at the Barbican.

But the fact that as a group,

we got to go to the amazing China gig
at the China Beijing Comedy Festival.

And also a joy for me was seeing a lot
of those Chinese audiences absolutely

adore you when you're
in the show going, My God.

So it was a fabulous journey and
I look forward to seeing you when we

rehearse once more to bring
it to the Barbican.

At this point, Mikey, we have

a section which we call 'Ask an Idiot',
where someone from the public,

when they've seen who the guest is,
is keen to ask a question.

So let's hear that question now, please.

ZOE (LISTENER): Hi, my name is Zoe.

I'm a dancer and I'm an actor.

And I just had a question for Mikey.

What choreographers inspired you
in the past to get into choreography?

And what choreographers sort of still
inspire you to this day and why?

Obviously!
Thank you.

MIKEY: What an interesting question.

And I actually love this question because

I get to talk about
people that inspired me.

So I think from a young age, hip hop or
street dance was seen in a certain light.

It was like very much popping, locking,

breaking, and there was a lot of consensus
about how it should have been done.

There is a lady called Shannelle Fergus
who actually works with ZooNation now,

and she was our manager when I was in Boy
band. Her movement, and a friend of mine,

Jack Pointer Mackenzie, really changed
my idea of what dance could be.

And I never came from a contemporary

background or a ballet background or
a technically trained background,

but it opened up my eyes
to movement and dance as a whole.

So I'll definitely say those two are very

inspirational figures
in my choreographic journey.

And also a couple from America called
Keone and Mari Madrid,

and how they storytell through their
movement again,

was really enjoyable for me to watch
and I learned so much from watching them.

Probably those four would be
my top four if I had to choose.

PAUL: Right, I'm going to go and look at them,

as I'm sure many other listeners will,
and then I have something expected because

- unexpected, sorry,
not expected, unexpected.

I'm currently in a show at the RSC
performing called 'Cowbois'.

One of my lovely colleagues
in the show is Michael Elcock.

Yes, as you know, a dear friend of yours,

and he said, "Please, can I ask Mikey
a question?" This is from Michael to you.

He says, ask Mikey,
"what was your best and worst experience

of performing in 'Groove
On Down The Road'?" And if you can't

answer this, if it's too risque,
and Michael's winding you up, whatever,

but I thought I'd better
pitch that question to you.

MIKEY: Of course.
Shout out Michael Elcock, we love you.

Best performance is a hard one,

I always think press night or the last
show of a run is very important.

The energies are high,
everyone's in good spirit.

So I'll definitely have to say one
of those two for the best performance,

I think one of the worst performances,
and not because it's bad,

just because it's funny, is,
Michael Elcock - you'll remember this,

but the time that I think it was Tom tried
to roll over someone else's body

and the roll stopped halfway
and they both kind of collapsed.

It was during a moment where that was

the only thing happening on stage,
so that was really funny.

And if not that,
it would be where Sam Perry's shoe came

off and he tried to put it on for about
two minutes during the performance.

Those would probably be my worst ones.

Michael Elcock, I hope you remember those.

But that's a funny memory.

PAUL: I will pass that back to him when
I meet him before tonight's show.

He's a wonderful performer
by the way Michael.

He's a very gifted actor.

Anyway, your career has gone in so many

different ways, but I am fascinated by
this production you're in at the moment.

Mikey called 'Free Your Mind'.

Is that correct?
MIKEY: That's correct.

PAUL: Which what I've read about, and I've read
a lot about it because it sounds amazing.

It's loosely based on 'The
Matrix', is that correct?

MIKEY: Yeah, it's an interpretation of 'The
Matrix' and the world we live in today.

So, yeah, it's definitely
loosely based on 'The Matrix'.

PAUL: Wow.
And who's adapted it or created it?

MIKEY: I believe it was designed by Es Devlin,
directed by Danny Boyle.

Kenrick H20 Sandy from Boy Blue
has choreographed it.

And the scores by Mikey J.

It's been brought back.

There's a lot of moving parts
and creatives from different areas coming

together to make the show,
but it's an experience for me.

It's more than like a theatre
show or a performance piece.

It's a whole immersive experience
from the moment you step into the venue.

PAUL: It sounds extraordinary.

You mentioned the venue,
but the venue sounds amazing.

I mean, I've seen some photos and then I

heard something on the radio where they
described this new venue in Manchester.

Can you talk a bit about the venue?

Because it sounds unlike
anything I've heard of.

MIKEY: It's so difficult to put into words.

I've not performed in a space
like this ever before in my life.

The venue itself is huge.

It's very modern, it has a warehouse space

and it also has an auditorium, and there
are other spaces within the building.

But the scale of it is

so huge in comparison to anything
I've ever seen before in the UK.

And I think what an amazing venue to have

in Manchester for the community
here and for the UK to enjoy.

It's amazing.
PAUL: Amazing.

Someone said, or I read somewhere,

that one part of the venue is literally
big enough to hold a 747 aeroplane.

MIKEY: Yeah, that is correct.

And we use that space in the second act
of the show, so we cover two spaces.

We use the whole venue
in terms of performing.

It's a massive venue.
Crazy.

The scale of it is pretty cool.

PAUL: How many performers in the company, Mikey?
MIKEY: Performers?

I believe there's between 45 and 50 of us.

50 dancers in the cast.
PAUL: Wow.

MIKEY: Yeah, it's a very big cast.

Probably the biggest cast I've been in,
in a long time.

PAUL: And how long do you play Manchester for?

MIKEY: We play for another two weeks
and we finish on the 5 November.

We've played for about two weeks already.

It's been a crazy experience.

I've been living up here for three months

and it's coming towards the last
leg of the contract now.

PAUL: And, I mean, given the size of the show,

does that mean it will only happen
in Manchester, or will we get to see

in London or elsewhere.
Or what do you think?

MIKEY: I actually myself wish I knew more about
where this could go and the potential

behind it, but I would love for it to be
able to tour if there were venues

that could accommodate or if we could
adapt the show, but I would definitely

love to be in this space
and be in this world again.

So, fingers crossed.

We can hope for the best.

PAUL: It sounds amazing and I'm really sad
I can't get up to see in Manchester.

It sounds an extraordinary thing.

Mikey, it's been so lovely chatting to you
and to hear you talk about your craft

and what dancing means
and what it means to you.

I think there's a lot of people who are
going to find that very interesting.

I certainly do.

As someone who's not a dancer, who enjoys
moving, it's been really intriguing.

Thank you very much.

And I really look forward
to seeing you next month.

But we always finish in the same way.

Mikey, I'm going to ask
you seven rapid questions.

You answer the first thing
that comes into your head.

MIKEY: All right

PAUL: Pepsi or Coke?
MIKEY: Coke

PAUL: The Great Wall of China or
the Golden Gate Bridge?

MIKEY: Great Wall of China.
PAUL: I hope I've got these two things right.

I'll explain them for the listeners,
and if I haven't,

you can correct me an aerial, which I
think is a cartwheel with no hands.

MIKEY: Correct.
PAUL: Or a whip back, which is a backflip.

Is that correct?
MIKEY: Yeah, that is correct.

I would say aerial.

PAUL: Do you know, I don't know what it is,
but I find that very dramatic.

When someone does that,
I find it makes me go, oh, my god.

Anyway, the next question.

'Everything Everywhere,
All At Once' or 'The Matrix'.

MIKEY: 'The Matrix', because I haven't actually

seen
'Everything Everywhere, All At Once' yet.

I've heard great things,
but I haven't had a chance to watch it.

PAUL: Mikey, you should see it!

MIKEY: It's on my list.
PAUL: I really loved it.

And the movement is extraordinary.

Jay Z or Tupac?
MIKEY: Jay Z.

PAUL: Speed or precision?
MIKEY: Precision.

Every time.
PAUL: Film or theatre?

MIKEY: Theatre.

PAUL: Mikey, have a great day and I'll
see you next month at the Barbican.

MIKEY: Amazing.
Thank you so much.

Take care.

PAUL: Dear listeners, if you've enjoyed this
idiot podcast, please, spread the word.